Welcome to the Rings of Power discussion forum!

I was hoping something like this would be setup.

Personally I’ve gone from “this can be bigger than GoT” to “this may be a total flop” after the preview trailer.

The short post from the PPP guys today, now has me at “I hope I at least can enjoy it, whatever it may be”

Falkor wrote:

I was hoping something like this would be setup.

Personally I’ve gone from “this can be bigger than GoT” to “this may be a total flop” after the preview trailer.

The short post from the PPP guys today, now has me at “I hope I at least can enjoy it, whatever it may be”

Didn't know there was a trailer until now. Watched it and it felt like a fan trailer with amateur actors badly spliced onto CGI backgrounds. Odd. I was expecting something that looked awesome (even if the actual series ended up being something I didn't like), but the trailer - at least - looks a lot more "PJ Hobbit" than "PJ LoTR", which can't be a good thing.

I thought the trailer looked like any The Witcher trailer or Wheel of Time. I hope they have made something that feels like Tolkien to me, but I have very low expectations. Comments from the showrunners about a Galadriel full of piss and vinegar has not helped.

More depressingly perhaps is that i fear we are looking at the future of Tolkien. I think there is a severe shift happening in the fanbase and I think it's tightly liked to a SoMe and event-driven dumbing down not just of fansites like theoneringnet but also of traditionally book-oriented functions like The Tolkien Society. March madness! Fiddlesticks!

Stu wrote:

Falkor wrote:

I was hoping something like this would be setup.

Personally I’ve gone from “this can be bigger than GoT” to “this may be a total flop” after the preview trailer.

The short post from the PPP guys today, now has me at “I hope I at least can enjoy it, whatever it may be”

Didn't know there was a trailer until now. Watched it and it felt like a fan trailer with amateur actors badly spliced onto CGI backgrounds. Odd. I was expecting something that looked awesome (even if the actual series ended up being something I didn't like), but the trailer - at least - looks a lot more "PJ Hobbit" than "PJ LoTR", which can't be a good thing.

The trailer was lame and what you say about PJ Hobbit/LotR is spot on. The folks who have been to see more and talk to the showrunners have given some hopeful words, at least about the showrunners who they all say know their stuff.

I remain hopeful of a half decent show but if it is rubbish I have lost nothing. I don't actually care because as I have maintained going right back to the PJ movies, if I want Tolkien I will go to my bookshelves, not to a movie series or (now) TV show. I feel that some in the Tolkien community lean too hard onto adaptation and put a lot of emotional stock in them and are likely to walk away feeling hard done to.

Urulókë great idea.

onthetrail wrote:

show but if it is rubbish I have lost nothing. I don't actually care because as I have maintained going right back to the PJ movies, if I want Tolkien I will go to my bookshelves, not to a movie series or (now) TV show. I feel that some in the Tolkien community lean too hard onto adaptation and put a lot of emotional stock in them and are likely to walk away feeling hard done to.

Totally agree. If it is shit, it is shit. If it is good, it is good. It being the former will have exactly zero impact on my life. If the reviews end up being good, I'll likely give it a go, and the worst I'll suffer is I've lost an hour.

northman wrote:

More depressingly perhaps is that i fear we are looking at the future of Tolkien. I think there is a severe shift happening in the fanbase and I think it's tightly liked to a SoMe and event-driven dumbing down not just of fansites like theoneringnet but also of traditionally book-oriented functions like The Tolkien Society. March madness! Fiddlesticks!

I am interested how you reach this conclusion northman? I only ask because I have seen the Society, especially the Society, pushing against fan service over the last few years. With their support of the Amazon show which has drawn heavy criticism from certain quarters who are offended by skin tone and ethnicity within the show, to their support of giving a platform to fans who have traditionally seen less space to talk about their relationship with Tolkien. The Society knew they would be pushing against the fanbase when they opened up the floor to subjects not traditionally entertained within the Tolkien community. Also their hiring has been very good imo. Luke Shelton especially who has been instrumental in bringing research (Mallorn is now available to non members for instance) previously squirreled away for Society members alone to read. That is surely a good thing? Encouraging non members to read papers, opening up YouTube to everyone to watch and listen to talks all seem a very decent direction to take. Of cours ethe fanbase will change and much of that has I feel come from the movie generation but I don't see Tolkien studies suffering these last few years. There are some very exciting projects that have come along more recently and some excellent researchers with it.

That is my take on the Tolkien fanbase currently at least.

northman wrote:

I thought the trailer looked like any The Witcher trailer or Wheel of Time. I hope they have made something that feels like Tolkien to me, but I have very low expectations. Comments from the showrunners about a Galadriel full of piss and vinegar has not helped.

More depressingly perhaps is that i fear we are looking at the future of Tolkien. I think there is a severe shift happening in the fanbase and I think it's tightly liked to a SoMe and event-driven dumbing down not just of fansites like theoneringnet but also of traditionally book-oriented functions like The Tolkien Society. March madness! Fiddlesticks!

TS's 2021 conference about cis-hetero something something made up words and talks about queer Saruman because rainbows is an actual glimpse into the future. I've seen it and I don't like it.
That said, RoP is something I'll gladly ignore. As someone said - it's a very expensive fanfiction. I'll stick to canon, thank you very much.

onthetrail wrote:

I am interested how you reach this conclusion northman? I only ask because I have seen the Society, especially the Society, pushing against fan service over the last few years. With their support of the Amazon show which has drawn heavy criticism from certain quarters who are offended by skin tone and ethnicity within the show, to their support of giving a platform to fans who have traditionally seen less space to talk about their relationship with Tolkien. The Society knew they would be pushing against the fanbase when they opened up the floor to subjects not traditionally entertained within the Tolkien community. Also their hiring has been very good imo. Luke Shelton especially who has been instrumental in bringing research (Mallorn is now available to non members for instance) previously squirreled away for Society members alone to read. That is surely a good thing? Encouraging non members to read papers, opening up YouTube to everyone to watch and listen to talks all seem a very decent direction to take. Of cours ethe fanbase will change and much of that has I feel come from the movie generation but I don't see Tolkien studies suffering these last few years. There are some very exciting projects that have come along more recently and some excellent researchers with it.

That is my take on the Tolkien fanbase currently at least.

I follow some FB sites, like the Silmarillion and LOTR sites, mainly to look at artwork that gets shared there and in my opinion there is no doubt that alot of the people who come there mainly come at Tolkien through the movies. It's been a while since i was surprised at comments like "i plan on reading the books soon" or "I love both the movies and the books" (I do get that one can love both, I am talking about people saying each has merit and its just down to taste). I fear with the tolkien cinematic universe emerging we will see the books more and more fade into the background. I might be pessimistic and conservative, but i think an attitude of 'we will always have the books' is passive.

With regards to the TS I would expect a more critical attitude for sure. And the latest post from Gunner read like PR. I'm not sure what to make of the chair of the TS posting like that in the wake of that trailer and in the wake of what the showrunners have previously stated. An example: "she's full of piss and vinegar, and she's got a sword that's broken because she's killed so many orcs.". I would expect the TS to be protective of Tolkiens legacy. It seems to me that they are leaning more towards 'expanding' and modernizing - catering to a new and young fanbase.

As for diversity in casting that's no big deal for me. I still think Morgan Freeman would have made the best Gandalf. But the wider debate about racism in Tolkiens works is something else. What i hope was rock bottom was just reached with Dimitra Fimi and Mariana Rios stating that "Despite Tolkien’s overall message of friendship and co-operation, and despite his raging against the Nazis, the face of evil in Middle-earth is invariably non-white/non-European.". This isnt scholarship, this is activism, and the TS doesnt take a stand at all.

I sent this comment to Beyond Bree, the monthly Tolkienian newsletter:

In the April 2022 BB, persons uneasy about the imminent Amazon Middle-earth series are admonished thus: “Adaptations are original cultural entities that can imitate, question, rewrite, or reinterpret their source material for a new audience.”

That assertion grants a great deal of license indeed! It immediately reminded me of Evelyn Waugh’s 1947 essay. "Agents negotiate, a price is fixed. And from that moment the story belongs to the studio to deal with as they please. Each of the books purchased has had some individual quality, good or bad, that had made it remarkable. It is the work of a staff of 'writers' to distinguish this quality, separate it and obliterate it" ("Why Hollywood Is a Term of Disparagement," in The Essays, Articles and Reviews of Evelyan Waugh, 1984, p. 328).

Dale Nelson