northman wrote:

Made it to “This place is so evil our torches give off no warmth.”. There is just no excuse for writing that bad. As I understand it that spared me seeing Galadriel jump ship close to valinor to brave the swim back to middle-earth!

I thought that the writers were making call backs to The Fellowship of the Ring in Lothlorien. It did nothing for me personally but there are plenty in our community who thought it was a worthy call-back.

northman wrote:

Sad to see it didnt get cancelled but considering the money that went into it I guess that was never an option.

This sort of comment I simply cannot understand, and frankly, it sounds rather mean spirited. There are plenty of people we know and get on with who enjoyed the show, who are excited for the next season. I am not one of them, after Joseph Mawle was announced to not return, I see no reason for me to either, but why would any of us be sad that the show continues? Tolkien is big enough to withstand adaptation, we should be too.

As somewhat indicated earlier, I don’t watch this for ‘writing’ (that’s what Succession was for) but for the visuals/spectacle and music.

Don’t get me wrong: it’s a shame that this show hadn’t made the impact that other shows had (Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, Sopranos) or the films did (even though that’s a different format) but I enjoy this for what it is; not dislike it for what it isn’t.

onthetrail wrote:

northman wrote:

Made it to “This place is so evil our torches give off no warmth.”. There is just no excuse for writing that bad. As I understand it that spared me seeing Galadriel jump ship close to valinor to brave the swim back to middle-earth!

I thought that the writers were making call backs to The Fellowship of the Ring in Lothlorien. It did nothing for me personally but there are plenty in our community who thought it was a worthy call-back.

northman wrote:

Sad to see it didnt get cancelled but considering the money that went into it I guess that was never an option.

This sort of comment I simply cannot understand, and frankly, it sounds rather mean spirited. There are plenty of people we know and get on with who enjoyed the show, who are excited for the next season. I am not one of them, after Joseph Mawle was announced to not return, I see no reason for me to either, but why would any of us be sad that the show continues? Tolkien is big enough to withstand adaptation, we should be too.

I think there is a culture emerging in the tolkien community where one should avoid being critical...unless one is critical of things its 'correct' to be critical of like catholism in the LotR. Personally I think RoP dumbs Tolkien down and damages his legacy, and me stating that opinion is as valid as someone saying they loved it.

As someone who didn't enjoy the films that much, I didn't expect to enjoy the Amazon series, but I definitely hoped that it would bring in a lot of Tolkien fans to the books the way the movies did because that's how we get more book purchases, which in turn leads to more publications as the market proves it is there. My concern about how poorly the show has gone (combined with the long gap in seasons) is that the show will not have anywhere close to the effect of the films and that the Tolkien readership won't noticeably increase due to the show.

Tuor son of Huor wrote:

As someone who didn't enjoy the films that much, I didn't expect to enjoy the Amazon series, but I definitely hoped that it would bring in a lot of Tolkien fans to the books the way the movies did because that's how we get more book purchases, which in turn leads to more publications as the market proves it is there. My concern about how poorly the show has gone (combined with the long gap in seasons) is that the show will not have anywhere close to the effect of the films and that the Tolkien readership won't noticeably increase due to the show.

We did get The Fall of Númenor as a result of the TV series, which IMHO was a good thing.

Possibly we did…..do we know how long Brian was working on it for prior to the book’s announcement? There’s also matching that up with the timeline (production not in-universe) of the show.

Given that Brian’s book focussed on Numenor and SA….it is a safe bet that’s a result of The Rings of Power merely existing.

northman wrote:

I think there is a culture emerging in the tolkien community where one should avoid being critical...unless one is critical of things its 'correct' to be critical of like catholism in the LotR. Personally I think RoP dumbs Tolkien down and damages his legacy, and me stating that opinion is as valid as someone saying they loved it.

To a degree, I agree with you, there is a cultural shift (the medal for taking part sort of movement) that desires to have everything only applauded, and if one has nothing to say that is positive then they should not say anything. I believe in being critical, and a series that adapts a source such as Tolkien's works deserves to be critiqued. But you said "Sad to see it didnt get cancelled", which is what I replied to. If you had said "I think RoP dumbs Tolkien down and damages his legacy" then I might have disagreed, in fact I do disagree (at least on the "damages his legacy" part), but you are welcome to that opinion. I believe that a show that doesn't sell Tolkien well enough actually has the opposite effect because of the wide and well versed community who are talking about their interests in the texts because of the show, then those who watch and want more, will come to the books, thus more books are sold, publisher makes more money, more books are offered, and collectors rejoice.

Being sad that a show continues because you don't like it in fact is mean, and while you are welcome to that opinion, I am welcome to mine. The suggestion that it "dumbs down Tolkien", yes it does, and it also makes it accessible to people who might not have gotten or clicked with a series of high fantasy. I know plenty of people who are film/TV fans and can't get through the books. Is their pleasure deserving of less than ours?

The ultimate truth is that this show is not aimed at us, it is aimed at the generation who think that Peter Jackson did Tolkien a great honour, or those who can look past the innacuracy to enjoy world-building in a visual form. We obviously can't, but we shouldn't begrudge them it.

Trotter wrote:

We did get The Fall of Númenor as a result of the TV series, which IMHO was a good thing.

Yes, this is why I will continue to support adaptations even if I don't like them. The more casual fans we can bring to the books, the better it is for book readers too.

onthetrail wrote:

northman wrote:

I think there is a culture emerging in the tolkien community where one should avoid being critical...unless one is critical of things its 'correct' to be critical of like catholism in the LotR. Personally I think RoP dumbs Tolkien down and damages his legacy, and me stating that opinion is as valid as someone saying they loved it.

To a degree, I agree with you, there is a cultural shift (the medal for taking part sort of movement) that desires to have everything only applauded, and if one has nothing to say that is positive then they should not say anything. I believe in being critical, and a series that adapts a source such as Tolkien's works deserves to be critiqued. But you said "Sad to see it didnt get cancelled", which is what I replied to. If you had said "I think RoP dumbs Tolkien down and damages his legacy" then I might have disagreed, in fact I do disagree (at least on the "damages his legacy" part), but you are welcome to that opinion. I believe that a show that doesn't sell Tolkien well enough actually has the opposite effect because of the wide and well versed community who are talking about their interests in the texts because of the show, then those who watch and want more, will come to the books, thus more books are sold, publisher makes more money, more books are offered, and collectors rejoice.

Being sad that a show continues because you don't like it in fact is mean, and while you are welcome to that opinion, I am welcome to mine. The suggestion that it "dumbs down Tolkien", yes it does, and it also makes it accessible to people who might not have gotten or clicked with a series of high fantasy. I know plenty of people who are film/TV fans and can't get through the books. Is their pleasure deserving of less than ours?

The ultimate truth is that this show is not aimed at us, it is aimed at the generation who think that Peter Jackson did Tolkien a great honour, or those who can look past the innacuracy to enjoy world-building in a visual form. We obviously can't, but we shouldn't begrudge them it.

While not a perfect comparison you remind me a bit of people advocating that national parks and nature reserves are made more available to old people. The sentiment is admirable but they are plain wrong. Nature has its own value apart from any antroposentric ideas we have about the last few patches 8 billion ppl didnt affect too badly already. And people who cant get through the books dont have enough going on on the TV these days without attaching the name tolkien to it? Being called mean is a small price to pay for being right.

Also i dont necessarily agree with the 'it brings people to the books' argument. I think we risk a culture where the easily available is overwhelming and books are becoming too hard.

The OneRing.Net have published an article on what might be in Season 2, no idea if any of it is true, though.

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2024/ ... -sauron-in-huge-new-ways/