northman wrote:

to top off this trailer....lets have a balrog roaring at the end. Awesome! Absurd and ridiculous and tolkien deserves so much more.

I just don't take it that personally. Tolkien wrote some stuff, he sold that stuff for film, his family sold some more of that stuff for TV. Tolkien isn't Martin Luther King, or Ghandi. He was a fantasy writer and he and his family sold off his stuff for hundreds of millions. Once we start on the "Tolkien deserved better" trail I think it's bordering on being militant, and Tolkien is just not that important.

Morinehtar wrote:

Eorl the Young wrote:

Even PJ, for all his clout, could not escape the studio pressure, and the Hobbit films were worse for it.

If I remember correctly, PJ was handed a mess of a situation (after del Toro left) and asked for 1 more year, but the studio declined. I wonder what he would have done differently if he had more time.

Indeed. WB also apparently pushed for three films instead of the original two, and for the inclusion of Tauriel.

onthetrail wrote:

northman wrote:

to top off this trailer....lets have a balrog roaring at the end. Awesome! Absurd and ridiculous and tolkien deserves so much more.

I just don't take it that personally. Tolkien wrote some stuff, he sold that stuff for film, his family sold some more of that stuff for TV. Tolkien isn't Martin Luther King, or Ghandi. He was a fantasy writer and he and his family sold off his stuff for hundreds of millions. Once we start on the "Tolkien deserved better" trail I think it's bordering on being militant, and Tolkien is just not that important.

Tolkien is an artist, and he is the artist i tend to care the most about. There is nothing militant about having strong opinions about art. The day I ban people from SoMe for having different opinions than me, and the day I start saying "i'm not going to participate in this panel as long as he or she participates" then I'll accept the staple militant. In the meantime i will happily endure being called stubborn, unreasonable, hotheaded and singleminded...all of which are true to some extent :)

onthetrail wrote:

I just don't take it that personally. Tolkien wrote some stuff, he sold that stuff for film, his family sold some more of that stuff for TV. Tolkien isn't Martin Luther King, or Ghandi. He was a fantasy writer and he and his family sold off his stuff for hundreds of millions. Once we start on the "Tolkien deserved better" trail I think it's bordering on being militant, and Tolkien is just not that important.

Good points to remember. Also, with all the automatic hate for Amazon and Jeff Besos because “multi billion dollar corporation” and “this is about the money”, most people tend to overlook the fact that the Tolkien Estate has agreed to this, chose Amazon from among at least one other competing studio, and also has a financial stake in the whole affair.

northman wrote:

onthetrail wrote:

northman wrote:

to top off this trailer....lets have a balrog roaring at the end. Awesome! Absurd and ridiculous and tolkien deserves so much more.

I just don't take it that personally. Tolkien wrote some stuff, he sold that stuff for film, his family sold some more of that stuff for TV. Tolkien isn't Martin Luther King, or Ghandi. He was a fantasy writer and he and his family sold off his stuff for hundreds of millions. Once we start on the "Tolkien deserved better" trail I think it's bordering on being militant, and Tolkien is just not that important.

Tolkien is an artist, and he is the artist i tend to care the most about. There is nothing militant about having strong opinions about art. The day I ban people from SoMe for having different opinions than me, and the day I start saying "i'm not going to participate in this panel as long as he or she participates" then I'll accept the staple militant. In the meantime i will happily endure being called stubborn, unreasonable, hotheaded and singleminded...all of which are true to some extent :)

That's where I tend to differ in opinion to most I assume.
"This looks rubbish". "I don't like". "Doesn't look Tolkien to me". "CGI rubbish". All fine and subjective. "Tolkien deserves better"? That is nonsense and militant in my opinion because it sounds more like a movement than the subjective reactions to entertainment.

Maybe this is not the place for such a subject though so getting back to the latest trailer I'd say that after watching it again I think Amazon are pulling the wool over people's eyes a little here. I believe the show is going to be so much more political (internally) than anyone has so far discussed that I can see. Hearing some of the cast talk about Tolkien has given hints that some are very much fans too. Morfyd is a fan very clearly. Trystan Gravelled has very obviously been thinking deeply about his character and I expect there will be quite a few thoughtful moments political dealings and slower moments. I don't follow at all with some reactions that this will be all action.

onthetrail wrote:

northman wrote:

onthetrail wrote:

northman wrote:

to top off this trailer....lets have a balrog roaring at the end. Awesome! Absurd and ridiculous and tolkien deserves so much more.

I just don't take it that personally. Tolkien wrote some stuff, he sold that stuff for film, his family sold some more of that stuff for TV. Tolkien isn't Martin Luther King, or Ghandi. He was a fantasy writer and he and his family sold off his stuff for hundreds of millions. Once we start on the "Tolkien deserved better" trail I think it's bordering on being militant, and Tolkien is just not that important.

Tolkien is an artist, and he is the artist i tend to care the most about. There is nothing militant about having strong opinions about art. The day I ban people from SoMe for having different opinions than me, and the day I start saying "i'm not going to participate in this panel as long as he or she participates" then I'll accept the staple militant. In the meantime i will happily endure being called stubborn, unreasonable, hotheaded and singleminded...all of which are true to some extent :)

That's where I tend to differ in opinion to most I assume.
"This looks rubbish". "I don't like". "Doesn't look Tolkien to me". "CGI rubbish". All fine and subjective. "Tolkien deserves better"? That is nonsense and militant in my opinion because it sounds more like a movement than the subjective reactions to entertainment.

Maybe this is not the place for such a subject though so getting back to the latest trailer I'd say that after watching it again I think Amazon are pulling the wool over people's eyes a little here. I believe the show is going to be so much more political (internally) than anyone has so far discussed that I can see. Hearing some of the cast talk about Tolkien has given hints that some are very much fans too. Morfyd is a fan very clearly. Trystan Gravelled has very obviously been thinking deeply about his character and I expect there will be quite a few thoughtful moments political dealings and slower moments. I don't follow at all with some reactions that this will be all action.

I'm not sure about "militant", but I do find the idea of "Tolkien deserving better" a little curious. Tolkien was a fiction author who wrote a couple of very well-regarded works and sold the rights. Then his family sold further rights, because Tolkiens understandably quite like hundreds of millions of dollars. Neglecting the fact that JRR is long dead and doesn't care, financial decisions have been made by himself and his heirs that allow adaptations to be made.

The key thing for me is that there could be a hundred adaptations, every one of them awful, and would not make the slightest difference to the printed word, which already exists in millions of copies.

As onthetrail said, Tolkien wasn't Gandhi, and his books aren't going anywhere. It is just a TV show and it might be good fantasy or rubbish - impossible to say from the trailer. I thought Jackson's LoTR was OK except for the bits most of us hate, and I thought the Hobbit was unwatchable trash. But looking back, does the fact that the Hobbit was unwatchable trash matter at all? Not unless you paid for a ticket to see it.

Since 2 people have now brought up Gandhi I suspect we are talking slightly past eachother. I love classical guns and roses and i love Neil Young and I love Nick Cave. Let's say someone wants to do coverversions of 'paradise city' or 'change your mind' or 'papa wont leave you henry'. If someone turned said songs into elevator easy listening i'd say GnR and Neil and Nick deserve better....that doesnt mean I think Axl Rose or Neil or Nick is comparable to Gandhi....i care about the art ...i dont worship artists no matter how much i like them.

northman wrote:

i care about the art ...i dont worship artists no matter how much i like them.

I apologise for using the term 'militant' Northman. Too strong a word to use in this context.

onthetrail wrote:

northman wrote:

i care about the art ...i dont worship artists no matter how much i like them.

I apologise for using the term 'militant' Northman. Too strong a word to use in this context.

no worries really.... and if we had had this debate over a pint we'd had a good laugh.

northman wrote:

onthetrail wrote:

northman wrote:

i care about the art ...i dont worship artists no matter how much i like them.

I apologise for using the term 'militant' Northman. Too strong a word to use in this context.

no worries really.... and if we had had this debate over a pint we'd had a good laugh.

I consider all of this stuff to be "pub chat" and nothing more. I think (or at least I hope) no-one's nose gets too out of joint about these kind of things.