Thanks for that, Beren. (wish we had a 'thumbs up' icon here).
Let's take a step back for a moment - and please bear in mind that, as always I can only speak for myself in these matters.
It may seem that we (or rather I) am taking a rather stern view of a specific dealer's pricing practices based on a report by one of our fellow forum members. In light of Beren's post just now, and looking back on his previous post (on p.7 of this thread) I think I am probably being too hard on Rene whom, I have to say, I have met on several occassions, and from whom I have bought some good stuff over the years. I've always been satisfied with my purchases, and find Rene a very kind and knowledgable person to do business with. I would recommend him to anyone.
I think what struck me as possibly an 'unkind' remark in Beren's post was this:
"An example was the Cor Blok painting Rene had listed on his website, he did not expect to sell it at the asking price, but was willing to let it go if someone was crazy enough to pay 'that amount' for it. "
On reflection, this seems to me to have been 'said' in what I would call a 'vaunting' style - the sort of thing I imagine one might hear behind the scenes at a book fair between dealers: 'I got rid of that book; you'll never guess what I got for it...' - that sort of thing is ok between one dealer and another. But when uttered on a site such as this, largely populated by those of us on the other side of the dealer's table, it might seem to smack of triumphalism.
But taking a further step back, I am just as 'guilty' of doing the same on the other side of the coin. I'm quite happy to tell my fellow collectors about the bargains I've managed to acquire over the years. Swings and roundabouts. The difference being that these conversations usually take place off - forum, often face-to face, so the person I'm speaking to can see and hear my expressions of gladness (when I've nabbed something good) or sadness (when one got away).
But I'd like to look again at Beren's original message: the passage which irked me comes from a larger portion of his post.
"In my book there is no such thing as aiming to make "as much profit as possible" ... We most of the time work with a fixed margin we aim at (that mostly includes free shipping costs, insurance and possibility for a reduction)... resulting in that when we manage to track down a very rare copy and after some negotiating pay a certain amount (mostly depending on what we believe the book can be sold for); the selling price is already set in the process.
So sometimes we get lucky and are able to sell some books at a price we think is very good or lower then we would actually estimate it. But since we were able to buy it cheap we can offer it cheap. Some dealers prefer to add a lot extra, but we prefer selling and finding a collector to treasure this rare book above making monster profits. Guess it is because we truly love to 'find' books and find our pleasure in the 'hunt' and not so much in the 'gain'.
Of course, since we are collectors ourselves, we always find it hard to sell some pieces or do not think it is time yet to sell some pieces... I know Rene also follows that rule... it indeed happens we list books at prices we do not expect to sell at. An example was the Cor Blok painting Rene had listed on his website, he did not expect to sell it at the asking price, but was willing to let it go if someone was crazy enough to pay 'that amount' for it. It did however sell and both parties are happy. So does it mean this painting is worth this price? Not really, but some collectors do spent crazy money to obtain unique items like that."
Sorry for the long quote, but I feel it was necessary, for my understanding at least, to put Beren's words into context. I do not now think that he was being triumphal in this post. I certainly don't think that he was implying any improper practice by himself (implicitly) nor Rene (explicitly). For my part, I'd like to withdraw my earlier remarks, and I offer my apologies to Beren and to Rene for any hurt caused.
*note - Khamul posted while I was away editing this (rather long) post. K. makes the interesting point about why B. used the word 'crazy'. Actually, it makes sense - I can imagine Rene using the word 'crazy', but in a self-deprecating way. If I'd heard him say this in person, doubtless I'd laugh along with him, taking the meaning in the way I think he meant it. To me at least, this is another example of the internet's frustrating inability to send clear 'messages' of a person's real intentions. To sum up - if I had any doubts about Rene's intended meaning, as reported by Beren, I have none now.
Let's take a step back for a moment - and please bear in mind that, as always I can only speak for myself in these matters.
It may seem that we (or rather I) am taking a rather stern view of a specific dealer's pricing practices based on a report by one of our fellow forum members. In light of Beren's post just now, and looking back on his previous post (on p.7 of this thread) I think I am probably being too hard on Rene whom, I have to say, I have met on several occassions, and from whom I have bought some good stuff over the years. I've always been satisfied with my purchases, and find Rene a very kind and knowledgable person to do business with. I would recommend him to anyone.
I think what struck me as possibly an 'unkind' remark in Beren's post was this:
"An example was the Cor Blok painting Rene had listed on his website, he did not expect to sell it at the asking price, but was willing to let it go if someone was crazy enough to pay 'that amount' for it. "
On reflection, this seems to me to have been 'said' in what I would call a 'vaunting' style - the sort of thing I imagine one might hear behind the scenes at a book fair between dealers: 'I got rid of that book; you'll never guess what I got for it...' - that sort of thing is ok between one dealer and another. But when uttered on a site such as this, largely populated by those of us on the other side of the dealer's table, it might seem to smack of triumphalism.
But taking a further step back, I am just as 'guilty' of doing the same on the other side of the coin. I'm quite happy to tell my fellow collectors about the bargains I've managed to acquire over the years. Swings and roundabouts. The difference being that these conversations usually take place off - forum, often face-to face, so the person I'm speaking to can see and hear my expressions of gladness (when I've nabbed something good) or sadness (when one got away).
But I'd like to look again at Beren's original message: the passage which irked me comes from a larger portion of his post.
"In my book there is no such thing as aiming to make "as much profit as possible" ... We most of the time work with a fixed margin we aim at (that mostly includes free shipping costs, insurance and possibility for a reduction)... resulting in that when we manage to track down a very rare copy and after some negotiating pay a certain amount (mostly depending on what we believe the book can be sold for); the selling price is already set in the process.
So sometimes we get lucky and are able to sell some books at a price we think is very good or lower then we would actually estimate it. But since we were able to buy it cheap we can offer it cheap. Some dealers prefer to add a lot extra, but we prefer selling and finding a collector to treasure this rare book above making monster profits. Guess it is because we truly love to 'find' books and find our pleasure in the 'hunt' and not so much in the 'gain'.
Of course, since we are collectors ourselves, we always find it hard to sell some pieces or do not think it is time yet to sell some pieces... I know Rene also follows that rule... it indeed happens we list books at prices we do not expect to sell at. An example was the Cor Blok painting Rene had listed on his website, he did not expect to sell it at the asking price, but was willing to let it go if someone was crazy enough to pay 'that amount' for it. It did however sell and both parties are happy. So does it mean this painting is worth this price? Not really, but some collectors do spent crazy money to obtain unique items like that."
Sorry for the long quote, but I feel it was necessary, for my understanding at least, to put Beren's words into context. I do not now think that he was being triumphal in this post. I certainly don't think that he was implying any improper practice by himself (implicitly) nor Rene (explicitly). For my part, I'd like to withdraw my earlier remarks, and I offer my apologies to Beren and to Rene for any hurt caused.
*note - Khamul posted while I was away editing this (rather long) post. K. makes the interesting point about why B. used the word 'crazy'. Actually, it makes sense - I can imagine Rene using the word 'crazy', but in a self-deprecating way. If I'd heard him say this in person, doubtless I'd laugh along with him, taking the meaning in the way I think he meant it. To me at least, this is another example of the internet's frustrating inability to send clear 'messages' of a person's real intentions. To sum up - if I had any doubts about Rene's intended meaning, as reported by Beren, I have none now.
Just a note - bruffyboy started this thread just over a month ago, and so far it's garnered some 2000 views, as well as thrusting out some unexpected roots.
All I can say is, well done! And keep it up.
All I can say is, well done! And keep it up.
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