I don't actually have a Clowes copy. Khamul is your man with regards to The Silmarillion.

There are a few different states, if that takes your collecting fancy. If I ever see a really fine Clowes, I'll probably pick one up, but usually it is too much effort to chase up eBay sellers and find out which copy they are selling.

Follow-up PM sent.

I think maybe I just worry too much.

The copy with minimal bubbling is a Clowes, so I think its worth it. Since that is the only defect I think you can grade it as F book with NF jacket with no fading. I mean this is a book that is 40 years old anyways and you can't expect perfection - in fact looks better than a lot of new books I get on mail!

Regarding UT there are no decent copies out there right now. I will just wait for now.

Morinehtar wrote:
Follow-up PM sent.

I think maybe I just worry too much.

The copy with minimal bubbling is a Clowes, so I think its worth it. Since that is the only defect I think you can grade it as F book with NF jacket with no fading. I mean this is a book that is 40 years old anyways and you can't expect perfection - in fact looks better than a lot of new books I get on mail!

Regarding UT there are no decent copies out there right now. I will just wait for now.

I tend to think you can expect fairly close to perfection on common titles, even taking into account the age. Remember the 250,000 copy print run! If not close to perfect, the book should at least be fairly cheap!

Thanks for all your help!

Now I have a much better idea of what these should look like and what price is acceptable. There are copies with faded spines priced above $200 and really good copies at $50-75. Its all about patience and being willing to spend time requesting several pictures from each seller.

Honestly, the prices that have been mentioned in this thread are nuts. Don't pay anywhere near £50/$50+ for either of these books in any condition. They are, especially The Silmarillion, ten-a-penny on auction sites like eBay; auctions finish with no bids all the time i.e. supply far exceeds demand.

Nowadays I wouldn't spend more than £10 on a standard 1977 copy of The Silmarillion unless there was some particular feature that really interested me e.g. a variant I don't have or some other interesting and unique point. Admittedly I do seek out copies with things other collectors probably aren't interested in, like copies with interesting previous ownership markings, ex-library copies, rebinds, etc; but for standard variants it's just about identifying them with good questioning & being persistent.

I do understand the wish to acquire copies with unfaded DJ spines; and that can be difficult. But if you're not going to buy every variant out there then how many copies of the standard 1977 edition are you looking to own? A Billing 1st state, a Clowes 1st state, and a BCA edition? Shouldn't be too difficult to track down that kind of number in F/F condt.

A word of warning: there are several states of both the Clowes & Billing printings; most of them are unrecorded in Hammond. Deagol (at tolkienbooks.net) has far more detail, but even his site doesn't have everything that's out there. If these things really matter to you, then be prepared to be disappointed quite often. It's reasonably hard to pin down a seller to provide photos & descriptions which help you identify everything that might be important to you as a collector: the printer, whether the jacket is priced, the binding, headbands, top-page edge dye, map positioning within the book, errors within the text, etc. Auctions with claims about priority, "true first edition" status (god, I hate that description!), etc, should generally be avoided. You decide priority, not the seller. You are far more likely to know more about the edition than the seller if you're the kind of collector who frequents this forum...

BH

Stu,

Thanks for posting your images of UT, your spine is in a much less faded condition than mine, is yours a 1st/1st impression as my copy has a GA&U price sticker for £7.50 and yours looks like it is nearly £9, pretty big price increase by GA&U at the time.

Does anyone own a copy with a GA&U price sticker of less than £7.50, i.e. was it sold for less?

Hello Khamûl, thank you for a very detailed reply. I generally only collect UK versions but I am making an exception in this particular case because it is not clear which one is the 1st/1st. I am not going to collect every variant though.

I am searching for one Clowes and one Billing 1st/1st and that's it. As you mentioned, it is easy to find cheap copies but they generally have at least the following (which I don't want): previous owner markings, ex-library markings, the map is lost or detached, browning of pages, bumps to book cover, loss/chipping/nicks to DJ near the corners, and most commonly fading of the DJ spine. I stay away from these.

I got a Clowes for a fair price (considering I requested customized shipping). After looking at more than 20 pictures the only defect I found was some minuscule bubbling to the back of the DJ (between the paper and the manufacturer-applied laminate) - maybe this can be fixed with low risk to the DJ? As it is, its a F book in NF DJ. Would you not consider this a good purchase?

I can't find a Billing in F/NF condition at this time, so I will keep tabs on Ebay, Abebooks, etc.

By the way, if anyone is selling a F/NF copy of Billing or UT please let me know.

Trotter wrote:
Stu,

Thanks for posting your images of UT, your spine is in a much less faded condition than mine, is yours a 1st/1st impression as my copy has a GA&U price sticker for £7.50 and yours looks like it is nearly £9, pretty big price increase by GA&U at the time.

Does anyone own a copy with a GA&U price sticker of less than £7.50, i.e. was it sold for less?

Yes, is 1st/1st, but was in a GA&U box that also contained 1st/2nds and various other GA&U books (including Silmarillions). I have no reason to believe that the DJ was swapped from a later impression.

Morinehtar, I'm slightly less interested in perfection in terms of condition & more interested in printing priority & history. I don't know if you got a good deal, as I don't know how much you paid, and I don't know precisely what you bought.

My point was simply a general one: there are several different states of marked first impressions of copies printed by both Clowes & Billing. Is this important? I don't know; but I'm always a little concerned by sellers asking for high prices for "true first edition"[s] --when the books aren't the first printed state (or where this isn't clear from the description) &/or other features are claimed to denote or not denote priority.

I could give examples, but I'm sure you probably know what I mean.

BH

I see a lot of those "true first edition" claims, some priced at around $400 with a faded spine! It is also worrisome that several sellers use "Near Fine" to describe copies ranging from Fine to VG.

Is it actually known what was the first state? Is there a substantial or at least noticeable difference in quality between Clowes and Billing printings that you would pick one over the other?