I'd like to add something positive to this discussion if possible... and that would simply be a thank you to the regular posters on this site. I've had a radically different experience here as compared with Mark. Everyone has been enormously helpful and kind as well as gracious and generous sharing their expertise, which is consistently accurate. I really owe just about every one of you a personal thank you for specific things you may or may not remember helping me out with individually. Much obliged TCG gang

You're welcome!

Mark,

I have asked HarperCollins about your claims.

If you are so knowledgeable about real providence(sic) or obtaining it, why don't you ask HC if CT actually signed these books and not some HC assistant as I think?

As I don't know any assistants at HarperCollins, who may have forged the signature, I talked to the Estates Director, and he confirmed that Christopher Tolkien, did indeed sign all these books, and could not believe that anyone would suggest that HarperCollins would forge Christopher Tolkien's signature?

I can't speak for other signed copies of this edition, maybe he signed actually signed the first 100, 200 or so? Did he get to nearly 500, not in this case. Some assistant did it for him. Its(sic) still official.

You have stated, in a post that you then edited, that Its(sic) still official that this was the case and that some or all of the signatures were forged by a HarperCollins assistant.


Please, can you provide your evidence so that I can forward it on to HarperCollins?

[ADMIN Note] This conversation has been split off from the thread it was started in ("Interesting eBay Auctions") as it had gone off topic. Please continue...

FWIW, I took photos of 1998 Silmarillion #473 (one higher than the copy that MF claims is fake), 2007 CoH #95, and 2009 S&G #19. I couldn't be bothered to dig out CoH #3 to see if it is materially different than the slightly later copy.

IMHO, the later books show a little bit less strength in the signature, but they are clearly the work of the same person and are remarkably consistent (considering CTs age, and an 11 year age gap from signing the Sil to the S&G).

I think we can also put to bed MFs (post deleted) suggestion that perhaps CT signed the earlier copies but someone else signed later copies.

In truth we all know this whole discussion is absurd, and I think we can just put it to bed as nonsense.

We made a mistake commenting on the lies on this forum. We won’t do it again. Contact us directly if you wished to discuss matters further. We do want to qualify the comment above as its important and some may misunderstand. 90% or more of Tolkien publishing and other historical background information is totally irrelevant to collecting, particularly values. Much may make for interesting discussion (if such minute detail interest you) and may have academic relevance to others. It might be enjoyable to collect variations and errors, but this is personal preference, not hard and fast rules effecting market values. Things are only worth what people will pay. All Tolkien first and early editions are easily identifiable and there are few snares for new collectors to be wear of, except JRR Tolkien signatures. There are numerous guides if you have any doubts. It is the scarcity (supply) and condition that determines the value, not intricacies of publishing, printing technology as was the case with antiquarian books. There are some printing variances which makes different states collectible, but has no effect on value. The finer older copies are all but out of financial reach to even collectors of means. Comparing older books to new condition is pointless. Most new editions have little or no value because there were too many copies printed and too little demand.
What collectors want to know is a particular copy, for the price, better or worse than another copy likely to come across, now or soon? Professional dealers as ourselves who have handled many copies first-hand, (not just compared photos on the internet), know the real scarcity and key points in which collectors will pay more or not. The opinion of somebody who is not actually buying or ever intending to i.e. does not have the means, is useless. What matters is what is available now, against the probability of what might be available and factors affecting future demand and scarcity. There are no secret sources anymore. We dealers must pay for current copies the same as our customer. To this end we are always pricing ahead and smart collectors, who are also investors, are buying ahead for what will turn out to be the future bargain. There is a group of Tolkien fans who resent this because they don’t have the means, never will and resent people who do, thus their continued comments about prices being too high. What they mean, its too high for them, and they are jealous. It is this same element within Tolkien fandom generally, particularly within the Tolkien Society/s in which we fell out with some time ago because of their left-wing, liberal socialist leanings. We suspect these are the same posters against us on this forum. There are few if any active collectors of means within the TS. As knowledgeable as a few are about Professor Tolkien and his scholarly history, they know nothing about collecting and current or future values. Our books recently, in which they made false and misleading comments, all sold at or above the asking price. Nearly every book they have commented on in the past as “being too expensive” has sold (except those were have priced not to sell). They refer to us as being an expensive dealer, yet we continually sell our stock over and over for some 15 years on Ebay. We are Power Sellers with 100% feedback and have been the last decade.

So, do their claims have any merit? Only they think so. It is just proof they are just miserable and cheap, has-beens and wananbes, misleading other readers of this forum with their pathetic lies. With a few clicks you can find out what sold on Ebay and how much. Yes, sometimes we get very lucky and sell for twice what we paid, only sometimes, but you can also! Or maybe we are smart and know what to buy, when or not? That too is something that should be encouraged, not discouraged.

Finally, our expertise extends out of Tolkien including working directly with best selling authors and artist as well as publishers. The naivety of a few frequent posters here that publishers don’t sign deluxe editions, sometimes or often, on behalf of their clients just beggars’ belief! Anyone can research famous signatures on the internet and see the anomalies. As dealers, we know why and what to look for. Don’t take risks listening to amateurs. Equally, some people have had learning disabilities, but decided to pursue a business anyway. Don’t be fooled that perfect grammar and writing on the internet means people know what they are talking about. The opposite is now more often true.

Mark,

somehow in this most recent post you have managed to insult and name call

(a) everyone on this forum
(b) everyone in the Tolkien Society
(c) the employees of HarperCollins for forging signatures and then lying about it
(d) Christopher Tolkien for agreeing to forging his signature
and last but not least (e) your own customers for buying new editions that have "little to no value" and being willing to "buy ahead" for "future bargains" (intentionally overpaying now in the hope that it will appreciate in value?).

If you do want to answer any of the specific questions asked of you in this thread, I am sure we can try to continue the conversation.

Mark D. Faith wrote:
We made a mistake commenting on the lies on this forum.

No Mark, you responded to an "interesting auctions" post for an eBay listing that has nothing to do with you. The sum total of the post that so irked you can be seen below:

Stu wrote:
IMHO overpriced, but someone might be interested.

You then went on to try and demonstrate your great knowledge by claiming HarperCollins faked the CT signatures on these volumes (but they are still hugely valuable despite this!).

Every time you are asked a specific question, you ignore it. Your wall of rambling text above is just another example.

So far as I can tell, your problem with TCG is the oft-given general advice that (paraphrased), "You don't need to pay high dealer prices if you have a bit of patience, because the same edition in similar or better condition will likely turn up for a lot less money".

I recently helped a guy in the US get a pair of books in new unread condition for $60 including shipping. The dealer copies of the same were $400. If I was you, presumably, I'd have purchased the books myself and tried to sell them to him for $400, right, as that would be the smart thing to do?

Dealers have their place, and there are some great ones out there, whom I have done business with very happily. Like any business though, there are good dealers and bad dealers. From what you say, your customers (and yourself) think you are wonderful, and that is great for them and you.

You do, however, seem to try and give the impression that what you care about is people potentially missing out by being advised that a book might be too expensive. But you also state that you have jumped in and then made a big profit in such cases. So which do you *actually* care about; Your profit or the poor ill-advised public?

You do continuously harp on about being "professional". And the only people that are worth listening to are "professionals". You believe that it is impossible to understand the market unless you are in the market for the purposes of making money (that's all professional means in this context). I mean, it isn't as if there is an open and obvious global market that can be mined for selling-price data, right....

And FWIW, some of the people on here have collections that would far exceed anything you could ever dream of. You are a book seller, not a collector. This is a site for collectors.

Mark D. Faith wrote:
The naivety of a few frequent posters here that publishers don’t sign deluxe editions, sometimes or often, on behalf of their clients just beggars’ belief! Anyone can research famous signatures on the internet and see the anomalies. As dealers, we know why and what to look for. Don’t take risks listening to amateurs.

Still claiming those CT signatures that HC sold us are fake I see? I hope those lawyers you're always threatening us with are real, because you may have need of them...

BH

I'm the seller of the book on eBay.

If anyone has questions or concerns or even advice regarding this book please feel free to contact me either here or through eBay.

Cheers,
Lachlan