On the CoH Super Deluxe: I also agree that the 50% margin (or so) is certainly what is keeping HarperCollins from using normal distribution channels on the book. I would love to see HC and Houghton Mifflin work more closely on certain titles like this, but HM does put out their own deluxe editions from time to time that are not just mimics of HC editions. Clearly HM hasn't put out signed/limited editions before, but I think it is more up to the Tolkien Estate for the agreements it signs with various publishers. HM has US rights, and there is nothing HC can do about it. With Beren's offer and connections with HC, those collectors who really need help to get a copy should be able to get one. I also agree that there will be a steady supply of these for a while via eBay and other reseller channels once HC releases them in early December. The book does look awesome (virtually) compared to other super deluxe editions in the past though. Can't wait to see it in person to see if the manufacturing quality is up to the description (and price!)

On the Box Set: Given the resale value of the individual books on the secondary market, I think some collectors will pick up the boxed set and use the meta-slipcase to hold the first impressions they already have, and try to sell off the later impressions as superfluous. It is quite a price to pay for just the extra slipcase, and I for one can't afford the shipping costs for the whole set to the USA, so I will have to pass for now. I don't know what the market is that this set is targeted at either. It's a really big cardboard sleeve for $400... It's also like those Harry Potter boxed sets that came out before the full seven books were published. They had a slipcase for the first two, then a slipcase for the first three, then... I wonder what the collectibles market will be for those "incomplete" boxed sets in time. What I would like to see is a slipcase for that "essential Tolkien collection" that Amazon had - that would be a big slipcase!

>I would like to see is a slipcase for that "essential Tolkien collection" that Amazon had - that would be a big slipcase!

I think a slipcase that big is actually called a *bookcase*, and can be acquired from all good furniture retailers ! :)

Stu

The prices on Amazon were lower.

LotRs was available for £70 when it came out.
CoH for £39.60
Silm. just came out for £42.
[=£151.60]

I didn't buy the Hobbit from Amazon, but I'm pretty sure it was available for around £40 aswell. Point is, you could have easily got a new copy (1st imp.) for <£50. Giving a total of <£200 (for a full new 1st imp. set). Seems like a pretty poor release.

I concede the point regarding US/UK releases (Deagol! ). I didn't check! However besides Amazon themselves I'm not sure if any small dealers would pay any attention to this (would they?).

Obviously money is the main issue though...

BH

[Sorry one last thing...] So how were HoME deluxe editions released? Were they available to US buyers direct at the time?

The HoME deluxe editions were released through the normal UK wholesale distribution channels. I got mine through Amazon.co.uk (shipped to the USA). Sometimes shipping is cheaper getting the books through Amazon.ca, as it seems that the UK editions are more regularly available there than the US ones (I don't think Houghton Mifflin owns the Canadian distribution rights.)

I don't know how the other super-deluxe signed editions were put out in prior years, though. Anyone recall?

[Thanks for that info. Rowns]

I wasn't really talking about the Super-deluxe editions in particular though. My point was, that if US buyers could purchase HoME deluxe editions (books which HM must hold the rights for in the US?), why is this any different? (particularly if HM have no intention of releasing their own Super-deluxe; couldn't they allow distribution in this case?)

The HoME deluxe editions don't constitute new editions as such (Yes/No?); they didn't even have a new preface or introduction. So surely HM held the rights to distribute these in the US?; or conversely HC didn't hold the rights for them in the US, and US customers would have had the same problem as they have now? (with CoH Super-deluxe). But you could buy them and get them sent to US!

Is this warped logic? Or is it simply that rights issues are different for individual titles? (Is HoME example exceptional because of the titles being collected together?). Or is it something more specific; like the fact that HC are distributing the titles themselves? (and not through a wholesalers).

BH

Hello all,
a few comments :

Canadian editions of CoH were published by HC Canada, and state as much on the copyright page. Though they are in all other ways identical, they are identifiably not British imports.

Perhaps I should keep my mouth shut so as not to shoot myself in the foot, but I also wonder how it is that retailers outside the US can sell to US residents.

Regardless of trade rights issues (and even if HM hadn't put out BCE size editions), it certainly is both incorrect and wrong to call up a HM information page when a search for a HC ISBN is made. They require different ISBNs because they are different books, and it is misleading for a retailer to re-direct searches to what it wants visitors to see - and, if this is a slippery slope, it could void half the work that went into my website.

HC sold perfectly exclusive rights to HM - with it already on the market, the time to get special permission for "Super-Deluxe" to be sold in the US is past. However, last week I wrote a somewhat bitter red-headed-US-stepchild commentary to store.tolkien.co.uk anyway, and got a personal reply/apology from David Brawn. I am now very, very slightly less bitter

"We are hoping to produce further special or limited editions in the future, and (...) I hope we will be able to address some of your concerns."

Perhaps once the book is in hand I will be another very small bit less bitter . . . :D

Skwish
The U.S. Tolkien Guide

If I may be permitted a small plug - my super-deluxe CoH is finishing on Bay tomorrow - seller ID is wellinghall.

I seem to have formed the HarperCollins Defence Association...!

Can I point out that 3 of the 4 books in the deluxe collection are 1st Impressions? Also, the deluxe Hobbit is still available from Amazon.co.uk (and TolkienBooks.net!) for 60 GBP. Based on current prices for the volumes at Amazon you would pay 181 GBP, so that puts the slipcase at 19 GBP - not a bargain I admit but HC aren't directly competing with Amazon in this case.

I don't believe that this set is aimed at those collectors who already have copies of the deluxe editions (I count myself as an unusual exception), rather it is for newcomers. It may take a year or two to sell them but they will sell steadily I think.

With regards to the books being sold in America, any US seller is allowed to sell HarperCollins editions. UK sellers can also sell to US buyers. It is HarperCollins (and presumably their wholesalers) that are restricted from selling copies to US dealers or individuals. If HarperCollins were to distribute any edition in the U.S., via Houghton Mifflin or with their permission, they would have to pay a royalty which (I presume) is what they want to avoid in this case.

As far as I can tell, previous deluxe editions were sold by the publisher directly and via booksellers, but the U.S. exclusions still applied. I think this is the first really expensive edition to be sold since internet shopping has become so popular, so there hasn't been the opportunity, or need, for the publisher to be the sole source before - which is perhaps why the inability of the publisher to sell directly to the U.S. hasn't been highlighted before.

All I remember since 1992 where small papers you had to fill in and receive (listen good) through the Tolkien Society. And in this way you could obtain the deluxe editions.

Then, when the HoMe Deluxe came out you could order it from Amazon and it was open for all, but still it was hard to obtain a copy.

By the way, it is funny to say, but back in 1987 up to 1996 there where a lot of these deluxe editions that had not been sold. They remained in stock (even in original mailing boxes) and finally around 1997 they sold of the stock in big lots (like for example 35 copies of the super deluxe hobbit in one go).

Now days things have changed; or it seems a bit like that. Deluxe editions are either more wanted, or there are more collectors these days.

I have been digging around, talking and listening a lot and I have learned a lot about how this edition came to be and who is behind it. And I knew about this edition already from before the release of the hardback edition. There where meetings held and suddenly the whole project was put aside or put on hold. I know when the project began to ran again and I can say it was not HC themselves who ordered this edition... and the reasons for this edition is also not the money. Let us see it as a gesture from the Tolkien family to the collecting community. Do you know that it has been a very long time since we saw any 'nice deluxe' appear... it was about time someone did speak up and demanded such a 'high' quality edition to be made...