By zionius
A possible typo in current edition of The Hobbit
23 Aug, 2021
2021-8-23 11:20:28 AM UTC
2021-8-23 11:20:28 AM UTC
Chapter XIV, last but one page: Still elves are lightfooted, and though they were not in these days much used to the marches and the treacherous lands between the Forest and the Lake, their going was swift.
It's "marches" at least since The Annotated Hobbit 2nd ed. and exists in later editions.
In the 1993 print of The Hobbit (HC paperback, Illustrated by JRRT), it's "marshes". It's also "marshes" in the draft (History of Hobbit, 3rd phase, XVb. King Bard).
This change is not recorded in The Annotated Hobbit and A descriptive bibliography. Although "marches" can be accepted, I think "marshes" is the correct reading.
It's "marches" at least since The Annotated Hobbit 2nd ed. and exists in later editions.
In the 1993 print of The Hobbit (HC paperback, Illustrated by JRRT), it's "marshes". It's also "marshes" in the draft (History of Hobbit, 3rd phase, XVb. King Bard).
This change is not recorded in The Annotated Hobbit and A descriptive bibliography. Although "marches" can be accepted, I think "marshes" is the correct reading.
23 Aug, 2021
(edited)
2021-8-23 11:39:34 AM UTC
Edited by Trotter on 2021-8-23 11:52:24 AM UTC
Edited by Trotter on 2021-8-23 11:53:10 AM UTC
Edited by Trotter on 2021-8-23 11:53:45 AM UTC
Edited by Trotter on 2021-8-23 11:53:10 AM UTC
Edited by Trotter on 2021-8-23 11:53:45 AM UTC
2021-8-23 11:39:34 AM UTC
It is marches in the 1st Impression of The Hobbit which does appear to be the correct spelling.
The change from marches to marshes first seems to have appeared in 1978 4th Edition of the text.
http://www.tolkienbooks.net/php/details2.php?id=146
The change from marches to marshes first seems to have appeared in 1978 4th Edition of the text.
http://www.tolkienbooks.net/php/details2.php?id=146
Thanks! So the data points now are: marshes (c. 1932) > marches (1937-1977?) > marshes (1978-1993) > marches (2002)
I still think "marshes" fits the context better But since Tolkien didn't change it in 3rd ed (I assume you've checked that)...
I still think "marshes" fits the context better But since Tolkien didn't change it in 3rd ed (I assume you've checked that)...
zionius wrote:
But since Tolkien didn't change it in 3rd ed (I assume you've checked that)...
Yes I did.
I just used a diff program to compare the 1993 HC paperback to the current kindle edition. Besides the famous/infamous first moon > last moon, most changes are trivial, except for hole > hold, marsh>march and peep>peer.
I do notice another possible issue with the current edition and Annotated Hobbit: realize is used 11 times and realise once (Chap VIII, about 3 pages before the Attercop poem, or AH p.209: Standing behind a tree he watched a group of them for some time, and then in the silence and stillness of the wood he realised that these loathsome creatures were speaking one to another. ). In 1993 HC paperback it's always realise. I don't know whether it follows Tolkien's inconsistent usage, or the editor forgot to change that last realise.
If anyone's interested, here are all the differences (case differences and the 11 "realise > realize" not included.forto means "for > to"):
I. The poor little hobbit sat down in the hall and put his head in his hands, and wondered what had happened, and what was going to happen, and whether they would all stayforto supper.
Gandalf struck a blue light on the end of his magic staff, and in its firework glare the poor little hobbit could be seen kneeling on the hearth-rug, shaking like a jelly that was melting. Then he fell flat on the floor, and kept on calling out ‘struck by lightning, struck by lightning!’
and there we were unexpectedly joined by my father and my grandfather with singed beards.
I have often wondered about my father's and my grandfather's escape.
Well, your father gave me this to give to you;
II. Indeed he was really relieved after all to think that they had all gone without him,
Mostly it had been as good as May can be, can be, even in merry tales,
III. and it was not so easy as it sounds to find thate Last Homely House west of the Mountains.
but one may guess that your trolls had plundered, other plunderers, or come on the remnants of old robberies in some holed in the mountainsof old. I have heard that there are still forgotten treasures of old to be found in the deserted caverns of the mines of Moria, since the dwarf and goblin war.
IV. perhaps that very nextfirlast moon of Autumn
(with poor little Bilbo at the back and nearest to the whips)
and the smoke that now fell from the roof made the air too thick for even their eyes to see through.
V. Fish on a little table, man at table sitting on a stool,andthe cat has the bones.
But we durstn'n’t go in, precious, no we durstn'n’t.
VI. though he could not do very much stuck up in a tall tree with wolves all round on the ground below. He gathered the huge pine-cones from the branches ofhisthe tree.
VII. He shut his eyes again and held on tighter.
but he thought it better to say nothing at all, and to let go his clutch just a tiny bit.
The noise of the giant bees flying to and fro and crawling in and out filled all the air.
The big man was frowning at first, but they did theirvery best to be frightfully polite,
Beorn may be your friend, but he loves his animals as his children.
VIII. Even the dwarves felt it, who were used to tunnelling, and lived at times for long whiles without the light of the sun;
but it looks to me as if it was just drawn up on the bank, which is low just there where the path goes down into the water.
This time he threw it with greater strength.
In the meantimewhile he had to rescue them.
IX. There would be a different expression on the face of the chief guardthe next day,
Bilbo was notso badly off now.
X. In the meantimewhile the barrels were left afloat while the elves of the raft and the boatmen went to feast in Lake-town.
The white oars dipped and splashed, and off they went north up the lake on the last stage of their long journey.
XI. The next day they setoffout again.
XII. some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company,
Up came some tools and bundles of stores, and thenthe danger was upon them.
It was not a pleasingant thought!
The thrushes are good and friendly
XIII. and Bilbo was justwas feeling that he could go on no longer,
XIV. and wealth over and to spare with which to buy rich things from the South;
Still elves are light-footed, and though they were not in these days much used to themarshesmarches and the treacherous lands between the Forest and the Lake, their going was swift.
XV. Their companies came flying from the South;
but their song was notanas elvish song,
Nor at all with the people of the Elvenking,
XVII. ‘I gave it to them!’ squeaked Bilbo, who waspeepingpeering over the wall, by now in a dreadful fright.
‘Be off!’criedcalled Thorin.
XVIII. Fili and Kili had fallen defending him with shield and body, for he was their mother’seldestelder brother.
I do notice another possible issue with the current edition and Annotated Hobbit: realize is used 11 times and realise once (Chap VIII, about 3 pages before the Attercop poem, or AH p.209: Standing behind a tree he watched a group of them for some time, and then in the silence and stillness of the wood he realised that these loathsome creatures were speaking one to another. ). In 1993 HC paperback it's always realise. I don't know whether it follows Tolkien's inconsistent usage, or the editor forgot to change that last realise.
If anyone's interested, here are all the differences (case differences and the 11 "realise > realize" not included.
I. The poor little hobbit sat down in the hall and put his head in his hands, and wondered what had happened, and what was going to happen, and whether they would all stay
Gandalf struck a blue light on the end of his magic staff, and in its firework glare the poor little hobbit could be seen kneeling on the hearth-rug, shaking like a jelly that was melting. Then he fell flat on the floor, and kept on calling out ‘struck by lightning, struck by lightning!’
and there we were unexpectedly joined by my father and my grandfather with singed beards.
I have often wondered about my father's and my grandfather's escape.
Well, your father gave me this to give to you;
II. Indeed he was really relieved after all to think that they had all gone without him,
Mostly it had been as good as May can be, can be, even in merry tales,
III. and it was not so easy as it sounds to find th
but one may guess that your trolls had plundered, other plunderers, or come on the remnants of old robberies in some hol
IV. perhaps that very next
(with poor little Bilbo at the back and nearest to the whips)
and the smoke that now fell from the roof made the air too thick for even their eyes to see through.
V. Fish on a little table, man at table sitting on a stool,
But we durs
VI. though he could not do very much stuck up in a tall tree with wolves all round on the ground below. He gathered the huge pine-cones from the branches of
VII. He shut his eyes again and held on tighter.
but he thought it better to say nothing at all, and to let go his clutch just a tiny bit.
The noise of the giant bees flying to and fro and crawling in and out filled all the air.
The big man was frowning at first, but they did their
Beorn may be your friend, but he loves his animals as his children.
VIII. Even the dwarves felt it, who were used to tunnelling, and lived at times for long whiles without the light of the sun;
but it looks to me as if it was just drawn up on the bank, which is low just there where the path goes down into the water.
This time he threw it with great
In the mean
IX. There would be a different expression on the face of the chief guard
Bilbo was not
X. In the mean
The white oars dipped and splashed, and off they went north up the lake on the last stage of their long journey.
XI. The next day they set
XII. some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company,
Up came some tools and bundles of stores, and then
It was not a pleas
The thrushes are good and friendly
XIII. and Bilbo was just
XIV. and wealth over and to spare with which to buy rich things from the South;
Still elves are light-footed, and though they were not in these days much used to the
XV. Their companies came flying from the South;
but their song was not
Nor at all with the people of the Elvenking,
XVII. ‘I gave it to them!’ squeaked Bilbo, who was
‘Be off!’
XVIII. Fili and Kili had fallen defending him with shield and body, for he was their mother’s
I have a slight problem with comparing eBooks and that is that publishers can and do issue updated versions of the eBook without changing any of the info about the book, so you can be looking at a different version of the eBook with no easy way to tell.
Very true. I've done the same thing with LORT, and notice sometimes the differences don't exist in the paper versions, esp. if it's an old ebook.
But this method does provide a quick guide of where to look for possible issues, like the inconsistent use of realize/realise. According to History the manuscript always used realize.
But this method does provide a quick guide of where to look for possible issues, like the inconsistent use of realize/realise. According to History the manuscript always used realize.