SPOILERS AHEAD - Season 1 Episode 7 - The Eye

It is quite an achievement to get this far into the show and I don't like or really care about any of the characters, though if I did have to pick favourites it is the 'dark' side who are ever so slightly more interesting.

I would give this episode a solid 2/10 for the annoying Hobbits, Elves and Dwarves.

I notice that Elrond is still doing 600 mile trips for tea, the Númenóreans are popping back to their island which I think is about 1800 miles.

Next week's big reveal is Sauron, if anyone is still interested.

I've tried to be positive about the show but that last episode was, well, crap. I've concluded that the writers are just writing any crap that comes to mind and running with it.

Further to what Trotter says about the most interesting characters, they are the baddies indeed.

I really struggled through that episode and I've no invested interest in the heroes at all.

I am finding things to like about most of the characters, definitely, but overall not invested in anyone in particular yet either.

Take Elendil for example - I have loved most of his scenes. After seven hours, he's only had about 15 minutes total screen time, spread across four or five of those hours. To me, that's like the distant relative that you meet at gatherings every few years for a quick chat - fun to catch up with, but doesn't feel like family, if you know what I mean?

I'll have some further thoughts after the full season is out, but I have to say that I am not worried about the multi-year gap before season two. That time will really help me (and hopefully the show). I am really happy that there are lots of people enjoying this show - it has an awful lot going for it - but I am sad that I am not engaged with it the way I was looking forward to just a few months ago.

Urulókë wrote:

Elendil for example - I have loved most of his scenes. After seven hours, he's only had about 15 minutes total screen time, spread across four or five of those hours. To me, that's like the distant relative that you meet at gatherings every few years for a quick chat - fun to catch up with, but doesn't feel like family, if you know what I mean?

This is a perfect example and fits how I feel about much of the show. For me there are definitely too many strands. It rarely works when a show is into so many characters unless the show invests in them for larger blocks. Westworld for instance works because it is not afraid to trust the audience to remember a character and then catch up properly later rather than dipping into them for a few minutes.

My trouble with the show is that it is not a bad show, but it is not a great show. I can get into a bad show as I find stuff to enjoy about them, but a show that is a nothing. It isn't bad, but it is bland and has no emotional hooks has no chance with me.

I've managed to catch up and saw Episode 7 yesterday.

Well, it's really discouraging, the whole series is slow, boring and poorly scripted. Apart from Episode 6 (the only one so far where something actually happens, even if it's mostly non-sense as usual), the rythm is unbearable... hours go by and literally nothing interesting happens.

I've tried to watch the whole series trying not to focus on the differences between the show and the books, but at the end of the day I feel like they managed to attract viewers with the "Tolkien label" to produce a politically correct soap opera to fit the no-racism no-sexism agendas.

Max wrote:

I've managed to catch up and saw Episode 7 yesterday.

Well, it's really discouraging, the whole series is slow, boring and poorly scripted. Apart from Episode 6 (the only one so far where something actually happens, even if it's mostly non-sense as usual), the rythm is unbearable... hours go by and literally nothing interesting happens.

I've tried to watch the whole series trying not to focus on the differences between the show and the books, but at the end of the day I feel like they managed to attract viewers with the "Tolkien label" to produce a politically correct soap opera to fit the no-racism no-sexism agendas.

I actually applaud them for the casting and I don't agree that they have made a politically correct soap opera, that's not to say I have no problems with the show because I do, and they are wide ranging and problems that leave me feeling cold towards it. The casting is what it is and publicly they have made a stance, but in universe I don't see any of that being played out. I also think that the casting has been largely successful in that the characters of Orondir, and especially Disa are very interesting and those actors bring a lot to their roles.

I think that the makers came upon an impossible writing assignment set by an Estate that cannot let go, even with a $250 million return. I suspect that the writers set out to make a different show, and came upon a monster they couldn't tame. By that I mean the Estate is the monster and Amazon the unwitting victim. If the Estate had wanted Tolkien’s work on the second age to be reflected on screen then they would have sold a package that allowed it. It would have been fairly easy to put together a group of texts and shop that out for sale. I suspect, and this is my own personal thinking here and shouldn't be taken as an opinion of this website, that the Estate played a rather clever game to sell rights but not really offer anything concrete, then when the actual development came into being, the makers were hamstrung by various stipulations that made it impossible to adhere closely to Tolkien’s writings without overstepping the off market texts. I don't say that as a criticism of the Estate, in fact I am in awe of them for they have secured Tolkien’s primary texts to be even more valuable going forward. Possibly they could have millions of fans flocking to the texts who might previously not have done. Well done them.

I think one only has to look to the credits to see what happened. All along, Amazon had billed this as Tolkien's Second Age, then came the show and the credits there is mention of "These storires are inspired by J.R.R. Tolkien's writings but ar enot actually from his texts" or words to that effect. They had to do a 180 on this show.

onthetrail wrote:

Max wrote:

I've managed to catch up and saw Episode 7 yesterday.

Well, it's really discouraging, the whole series is slow, boring and poorly scripted. Apart from Episode 6 (the only one so far where something actually happens, even if it's mostly non-sense as usual), the rythm is unbearable... hours go by and literally nothing interesting happens.

I've tried to watch the whole series trying not to focus on the differences between the show and the books, but at the end of the day I feel like they managed to attract viewers with the "Tolkien label" to produce a politically correct soap opera to fit the no-racism no-sexism agendas.

I actually applaud them for the casting and I don't agree that they have made a politically correct soap opera, that's not to say I have no problems with the show because I do, and they are wide ranging and problems that leave me feeling cold towards it. The casting is what it is and publicly they have made a stance, but in universe I don't see any of that being played out. I also think that the casting has been largely successful in that the characters of Orondir, and especially Disa are very interesting and those actors bring a lot to their roles.

I think that the makers came upon an impossible writing assignment set by an Estate that cannot let go, even with a $250 million return. I suspect that the writers set out to make a different show, and came upon a monster they couldn't tame. By that I mean the Estate is the monster and Amazon the unwitting victim. If the Estate had wanted Tolkien’s work on the second age to be reflected on screen then they would have sold a package that allowed it. It would have been fairly easy to put together a group of texts and shop that out for sale. I suspect, and this is my own personal thinking here and shouldn't be taken as an opinion of this website, that the Estate played a rather clever game to sell rights but not really offer anything concrete, then when the actual development came into being, the makers were hamstrung by various stipulations that made it impossible to adhere closely to Tolkien’s writings without overstepping the off market texts. I don't say that as a criticism of the Estate, in fact I am in awe of them for they have secured Tolkien’s primary texts to be even more valuable going forward. Possibly they could have millions of fans flocking to the texts who might previously not have done. Well done them.

I think one only has to look to the credits to see what happened. All along, Amazon had billed this as Tolkien's Second Age, then came the show and the credits there is mention of "These storires are inspired by J.R.R. Tolkien's writings but ar enot actually from his texts" or words to that effect. They had to do a 180 on this show.

I'm kind of happy the estate holds back. I have not seen the series, but from what i have seen of the trailers and read of the episodes it just seems these showrunners are more inspired by the things Tolkien inspired than by tolkien himself. What do we have from the second age? 'aldarion and erendis', 'tal elmar', 'the notion club papers', 'akallabeth'. There is very little 'wheel of time'/'dungeons and dragons' here. If I was the estate I would always keep first in my mind that Hollywood turned the LotR into actionmovies. Earning a ton of money and keeping the remaining stories of Tolkien safe from such treatment seems ideal.

As for the casting i dont know enough about it. I'm utterly allergic to woke casting. I wanted Morgan Freeman as Gandalf because he would have been the best Gandalf not because Freeman has a certain pigmentation... the american fixation with the colour of the outer nanometer of skin is ridiculous to me. One should strive to be true to descriptions in the books but as long as it doesnt ruin how believable the worldbuilding is then fine. Pick the best actors ....caring about anything else is fluff.

northman wrote:

I'm kind of happy the estate holds back. I have not seen the series, but from what i have seen of the trailers and read of the episodes it just seems these showrunners are more inspired by the things Tolkien inspired than by tolkien himself. What do we have from the second age? 'aldarion and erendis', 'tal elmar', 'the notion club papers', 'akallabeth'. There is very little 'wheel of time'/'dungeons and dragons' here. If I was the estate I would always keep first in my mind that Hollywood turned the LotR into actionmovies. Earning a ton of money and keeping the remaining stories of Tolkien safe from such treatment seems ideal.

As for the casting i dont know enough about it. I'm utterly allergic to woke casting. I wanted Morgan Freeman as Gandalf because he would have been the best Gandalf not because Freeman has a certain pigmentation... the american fixation with the colour of the outer nanometer of skin is ridiculous to me. One should strive to be true to descriptions in the books but as long as it doesnt ruin how believable the worldbuilding is then fine. Pick the best actors ....caring about anything else is fluff.

I definitely get your point about holding back the texts, and I have no issue with them doing so. I am not especially interested in adaptation as an extension of an authors work. It seems that many fans were invested in this series being some sort of substitution for the real thing.

As for the casting, those who followed the casting will note that Amazon never made any big statement about diversity when casting. They just got on with it. They did stand up though and start to get loud when racists came out attacking people online over it. That was their line, and now the cast mention it often and talk openly about diversity. The shift was caused by those fighting back against the casting, not Amazon themselves.

I don't buy into the "I am protecting Tolkien" milarkey, I have found most of that as a thinly veiled cover for their ugly attitudes. I suspect that they consider Tolkien to be something that he was not.

onthetrail wrote:

I suspect, and this is my own personal thinking here and shouldn't be taken as an opinion of this website, that the Estate played a rather clever game to sell rights but not really offer anything concrete, then when the actual development came into being, the makers were hamstrung by various stipulations that made it impossible to adhere closely to Tolkien’s writings without overstepping the off market texts. I don't say that as a criticism of the Estate, in fact I am in awe of them for they have secured Tolkien’s primary texts to be even more valuable going forward. Possibly they could have millions of fans flocking to the texts who might previously not have done. Well done them.

I think one only has to look to the credits to see what happened. All along, Amazon had billed this as Tolkien's Second Age, then came the show and the credits there is mention of "These storires are inspired by J.R.R. Tolkien's writings but ar enot actually from his texts" or words to that effect. They had to do a 180 on this show.

I agree.
The biggest problem for me, from a "canonical" POV, is that they distorted even the very few information about the Second Age they had rights to. The compression of 1500 years of chronology between the creation of the Rings and the Fall of Numenor cannot fall in the category "tv is a medium different from a book", it's a deliberate choice to alter Tolkien's stories that will leave a scar in those that will read the primary texts after the tv series. I was ready to watch storylines and lots of stuff invented, inspired by Tolkien, but within those limits they had.
While I cherish the little hints "we-can't-say-what-it-is-but-you-know" to fan they give, for example the heirlooms in the tower of Numenor (axe, helm, etc), I believe they fail on the task to tell something inspired by Tolkien but still inside Tolkien.