30 April
2024-4-30 8:44:00 AM UTC
Hello everyone, this is my first thread.
I apologize if I chose the wrong place on the site, I tried looking in Adaptations but couldn't find anything specific for the original movies.
So here's my question.
Does anyone know the plant that was actually used in the Lotr or Hobbit movies as Athelas?
I even started a
stackexchange thread on this topic and in a few hours there are already a bunch of people trying to figure it out from the pictures, but if anyone has infos, that would be even better, and I thought this would be one of the best places on earth to find them.
Yesterday I even wrote to Weta -the only mean to get to Peter Jackson unless you are Frodo himself- to ask him directly.
Thanks to all who will join
30 April
2024-4-30 11:17:24 AM UTC
I don't think there is an answer to that, not that I have seen at least, but an article at
Middle-earth News that I kept among my notes might offer at least the basics of what the plant is similar to in the real world.
I personally, as a gardener, relate Athelas to basil in quality but what they used in the film to represent it is beyond me. From the images they appear to use a bushy herb, or ornamental plant which does not match the description of a long leaf from the (from memory right now iirc).
I would be interested to hear more if you discover the answer.
Welcome to the website.
30 April
2024-4-30 2:04:13 PM UTC
Can you post stills here?
1 May
2024-5-1 9:19:54 AM UTC
Thanks so much onthetrail, my pleasrure for joining such a nice and elegant group.
Yes, Basil has been over the years recognized as one of the prominent candidates for the role, both for the king-related ethimology of its name and the balsamic scent, rarely matched from other plants.
There is an extensive ane exquisite thread over the topic for who wants to dive in the literary - IRL counterpart discussion.
https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/244820/is-kingsfoil-derived-from-basilOne of the last comments on this very thread I mentioned, claims that The Professor himself in a private letter stated clearly that Athelas has no IRL counterpart.
I can't be sure of the source, but I think that's quite reasonable to think of Athelas as a mix of positive properties gathered from different plants.
Therefore my concern regards solely the movie choice, since is the one entered in the collective imagination and recognized as Athelas worldwide.
Along with the stackexchange thread, I started similar ones in two different bothanical forums (one based in New Zealand) and even tried to write to Weta, the only mean I could think of to try reaching for Peter Jackson.
Luckyshot yes, here you are.
These are the stills I have gathered, slowing to 0.25x the scenes
1 May
2024-5-1 9:30:43 AM UTC
1 May
2024-5-1 10:16:02 AM UTC
I had not looked at the Hobbit movies as a source, which I should have given how much more obvious the plant is from it. It does have a Periwinkle look to it. The irony of them using Periwinkle (if it is the case) is not lost on me, take its Italian name fiore di morte, the flower of death. Our American friends here will likley know it as dogbane and hav elikely had a another plant strangled to death by it over the years.
1 May
2024-5-1 4:29:31 PM UTC
Reminds me of "Perry-the-Winkle" poem in The Adventures of Tom Bombadil (no relationship though).
I am sure there's some information in the expanded film appendices on the home video sets (DVD etc.) but it has been decades since I watched those.
1 May
2024-5-1 5:14:00 PM UTC
Thanks Urulókë, if you could remember anything it could be very important
Yes onthetrail, the Periwinkle thread is quite charming. I'm waiting for the response of the other botanical forums I'm in touch with, one in NZ and the other of British Columbia University
11 May
2024-5-11 11:29:41 AM UTC
Hello everyone,
I'm here just to happily confirm the species announced before.
Two different botanical forums agreed on the official IRL Athelas used in LOTR and Hobbit movies:
the species is Chaenostoma cordatum, probably var. Snowflake (the small-flowered variety)
Cheers from Italy to anyone who joined and followed