General Topics >> 2024 Lord of the Rings 70th Anniversary Deluxe Edition Unboxing - Tuesday September 24th
At this point, Alan’s artwork is as synonymous with text as Baynes’ artwork is for the Narnia series.
Also: your thoughts were taken into consideration by Christopher (and the Estate itself) when Alan was chosen to do the Centenary Edition.
I wasn’t trying to unjustify your opinion: just reinforce Alan Lee’s association with Tolkien books
Also: your thoughts were taken into consideration by Christopher (and the Estate itself) when Alan was chosen to do the Centenary Edition.
I wasn’t trying to unjustify your opinion: just reinforce Alan Lee’s association with Tolkien books
24 September
(edited)
2024-9-24 7:17:12 PM UTC
Edited by Dale Nelson on 2024-9-24 7:25:16 PM UTC
Edited by Dale Nelson on 2024-9-24 7:25:30 PM UTC
Edited by Dale Nelson on 2024-9-24 7:25:30 PM UTC
2024-9-24 7:17:12 PM UTC
We are happy in that Alan Lee is the "official" Tolkien illustrator and not John Howe, Darrell Sweet, Roger Garland, or Ted Nasmith &c.
For me, the question is, "Who will benefit most from this new Lee-illustrated edition?" I could see myself giving a set to, say, a young reader who lived in a city and was too readily attracted to videos, etc. The Lee illustrations should, for him or her, be a window out into a richer imaginative experience.
But the more experience the young person was having of branches overhead, birdsong, animals in the ferns, woodland paths, etc., the less I would think she/he needed an illustrated edition -- because so much of the importance of Tolkien's Middle-earth is that it gives us our own world refreshed.
(Digression: I grew up on the Remington covers and really appreciate how, as a continuous semi-abstract design, they did not substitute for the imaginative formation going on in me as I read the books and also roamed around in woods, looked at hills and mountains in the distance, etc. They are a really good invitation to pick up the books and read. Invitation -- not substitution.)
But not everyone has had that kind of experience, of woodland paths and so on. The Lee-illustrated edition could be a gift indeed for some such folk.
For me the test of a Tolkien illustrator is not so much, or simply, whether she or he realizes my imagined depiction of Gandalf, Aragorn, the Black Riders, etc., but whether the artwork seems to come forth from the natural world or to have some feeling for it. Tim Kirk's wraparound design for the Mirage Press edition of Foster's Guide to Middle-earth or his calendar illustration of Maggot's farm pass the test.
The thing about Tolkien's Middle-earth is that it really is our world, but the world we often hardly perceive.
Something that would appeal to me is an edition working with artwork from before LotR was even published. For example, look up Samuel Palmer's "The Weald of Kent." There's more of Middle-earth in that picture from almost 200 years ago than in a lot of "Tolkien art" I have seen... for me anyway.
For me, the question is, "Who will benefit most from this new Lee-illustrated edition?" I could see myself giving a set to, say, a young reader who lived in a city and was too readily attracted to videos, etc. The Lee illustrations should, for him or her, be a window out into a richer imaginative experience.
But the more experience the young person was having of branches overhead, birdsong, animals in the ferns, woodland paths, etc., the less I would think she/he needed an illustrated edition -- because so much of the importance of Tolkien's Middle-earth is that it gives us our own world refreshed.
(Digression: I grew up on the Remington covers and really appreciate how, as a continuous semi-abstract design, they did not substitute for the imaginative formation going on in me as I read the books and also roamed around in woods, looked at hills and mountains in the distance, etc. They are a really good invitation to pick up the books and read. Invitation -- not substitution.)
But not everyone has had that kind of experience, of woodland paths and so on. The Lee-illustrated edition could be a gift indeed for some such folk.
For me the test of a Tolkien illustrator is not so much, or simply, whether she or he realizes my imagined depiction of Gandalf, Aragorn, the Black Riders, etc., but whether the artwork seems to come forth from the natural world or to have some feeling for it. Tim Kirk's wraparound design for the Mirage Press edition of Foster's Guide to Middle-earth or his calendar illustration of Maggot's farm pass the test.
The thing about Tolkien's Middle-earth is that it really is our world, but the world we often hardly perceive.
Something that would appeal to me is an edition working with artwork from before LotR was even published. For example, look up Samuel Palmer's "The Weald of Kent." There's more of Middle-earth in that picture from almost 200 years ago than in a lot of "Tolkien art" I have seen... for me anyway.
Looking good. Much better than I was expecting. I knew as soon as Jeremy held it up...the blue leather,that this was going to be OK. Without seeing it,but I feel I have through the video,this is better than OK. So for the price,all things considered it's a thumbs up,both thumbs,to HC.
25 September
(edited)
2024-9-25 11:46:30 AM UTC
Edited by northman on 2024-9-25 11:51:46 AM UTC
2024-9-25 11:46:30 AM UTC
Dale Nelson wrote:
We are happy in that Alan Lee is the "official" Tolkien illustrator and not John Howe, Darrell Sweet, Roger Garland, or Ted Nasmith &c.
Dale your post was so interesting that I will permit myself to comment and thus perhaps go a bit off topic.
I do love Alan Lee's artwork for the Lord of the Rings. I think that back in the early 90's he found the perfect level of how much he shows in his drawings and how much he leaves for the readers imagination. His 'black riders/a knife in the dark' and 'the stairs of amon hen' are good examples of what I mean. I feel with a painting like 'Tinuviel' that the end result draws just a bit of 'the veil of myth' between the reader and the elf woman, and again the result is quite perfect. I also very much like his depiction of typical 'english nature' like lowland woods of willow trees and farmlands. His 'withywindle' and 'bag end' are good examples.
For me the #1 spot goes to Ted Nasmith however and it is because he quite perfectly depicts what i dub in my mind 'nordic nature' - mountains and forrests of spruce and fir. I really feel most illustrators fail at painting this naturetype perhaps because they live removed from it (which Ted does not). Nothing visual transports me to Middle-Earth in quite the same way as some of his paintings. With a painting like 'Durin's crown and the Mirrormere' i feel like I have a window open to Middle-Earth hanging on my wall.
A quick note on another illustrator i love - Roger Garland. I wrote a little something for Angerthas about him that it feels to me like Garland doesnt paint Middle-Earth, he paints his dreams about Middle-Earth. There is a dreamy and fantastic feeling to them that I love. 'Barad Dur' and 'Earendil and Elwing' and 'the haven of Morionde' are examples of what I mean. Someone, I forget who, told me on the FB a while ago that Roger was colourblind and this might explain some of his choices.
Anyway this was off topic with apologies to the mods. The 70th anniversary books look like really good value for the money. Thank you Jeremy for the live unboxing.
PS! I am lucky enough to live in a part of the world with quick access to both nordic naturetypes and to rich farmlands and also woods dominated by willow-trees and oaks and other such temperate broadleaf trees. My experience when hiking in the outdoors is forever affected by reading Tolkien - I find his descriptions of the natural world just amazing. Illustrators like Lee and Nasmith does right by him.
northman wrote:
For me the #1 spot goes to Ted Nasmith however and it is because he quite perfectly depicts what i dub in my mind 'nordic nature' - mountains and forrests of spruce and fir. I really feel most illustrators fail at painting this naturetype perhaps because they live removed from it (which Ted does not). Nothing visual transports me to Middle-Earth in quite the same way as some of his paintings. With a painting like 'Durin's crown and the Mirrormere' i feel like I have a window open to Middle-Earth hanging on my wall.
[...]
PS! I am lucky enough to live in a part of the world with quick access to both nordic naturetypes and to rich farmlands and also woods dominated by willow-trees and oaks and other such temperate broadleaf trees. My experience when hiking in the outdoors is forever affected by reading Tolkien - I find his descriptions of the natural world just amazing. Illustrators like Lee and Nasmith does right by him.
Living in the French Alps, I couldn't agree more !
And thanks to Urulókë for this unboxing which was useful to confirm this next purchase :)
As a footnote to my first message -- I found the passages in "On Fairy-Stories" that I was thinking of.
On page 49: "In human art Fantasy is a thing best left to words, to true literature."
On page 80: "However good in themselves, illustrations do little good to fairy-stories. The radical distinction between all art (including drama) that offers a visible presentation and true literature is that it imposes one visible form. Literature works from mind to mind and is thus more progenitive. It is at once more universal and more poignantly particular. If it speaks of bread or wine or stone or tree, it appeals to the whole of these things, to their ideas; yet each hearer will give to them a peculiar personal embodiment in his imagination. Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer or painter can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own. If a story says 'he climbed a hill and saw a river in the valley below,' the illustrator may catch, or nearly catch, his own vision of such a scene; but every hearer of the words will have his own picture, and it will be made out of all the hills and rivers and dales he has ever seen, but especially of The Hill, The River, The Valley which were for him the first embodiment of the word."
No, of course I'm not condemning illustrated books, nor the present illustrated version of LotR in particular, nor the opinions of any who disagree with me (or with Tolkien, here). Yet certainly Professor Tolkien had thought deeply about the matter of illustrations. Yes, I know he was prepared to accept an animated movie of LotR, etc. etc. But his thoughts quoted here deserve real consideration, though perhaps not right here on this particular thread, which I'm not trying to hijack. I'm trying at least to indicate why an illustrated LotR is a problematic thing for me, well done as the present set undoubtedly is. Thanks, all.
On page 49: "In human art Fantasy is a thing best left to words, to true literature."
On page 80: "However good in themselves, illustrations do little good to fairy-stories. The radical distinction between all art (including drama) that offers a visible presentation and true literature is that it imposes one visible form. Literature works from mind to mind and is thus more progenitive. It is at once more universal and more poignantly particular. If it speaks of bread or wine or stone or tree, it appeals to the whole of these things, to their ideas; yet each hearer will give to them a peculiar personal embodiment in his imagination. Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer or painter can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own. If a story says 'he climbed a hill and saw a river in the valley below,' the illustrator may catch, or nearly catch, his own vision of such a scene; but every hearer of the words will have his own picture, and it will be made out of all the hills and rivers and dales he has ever seen, but especially of The Hill, The River, The Valley which were for him the first embodiment of the word."
No, of course I'm not condemning illustrated books, nor the present illustrated version of LotR in particular, nor the opinions of any who disagree with me (or with Tolkien, here). Yet certainly Professor Tolkien had thought deeply about the matter of illustrations. Yes, I know he was prepared to accept an animated movie of LotR, etc. etc. But his thoughts quoted here deserve real consideration, though perhaps not right here on this particular thread, which I'm not trying to hijack. I'm trying at least to indicate why an illustrated LotR is a problematic thing for me, well done as the present set undoubtedly is. Thanks, all.
Letter from J.R.R. Tolkien to Mary Fairburn • 24 May 1968 (#689)
In this unpublished letter, Tolkien states he had changed his mind on illustrations and was now in favour of an illustrated version.
Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes. Tolkien, J. R. R. The Lord of the Rings
In this unpublished letter, Tolkien states he had changed his mind on illustrations and was now in favour of an illustrated version.
Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes. Tolkien, J. R. R. The Lord of the Rings
25 September
(edited)
2024-9-25 4:09:57 PM UTC
Edited by Trotter on 2024-9-25 4:31:04 PM UTC
Edited by Trotter on 2024-9-25 4:32:03 PM UTC
Edited by Trotter on 2024-9-25 4:32:03 PM UTC
2024-9-25 4:09:57 PM UTC
25 September
(edited)
2024-9-25 4:12:47 PM UTC
Edited by Trotter on 2024-9-25 4:35:20 PM UTC
2024-9-25 4:12:47 PM UTC
Trotter wrote:
Letter from J.R.R. Tolkien to Mary Fairburn • 24 May 1968 (#689)
In this unpublished letter, Tolkien states he had changed his mind on illustrations and was now in favour of an illustrated version.
Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes. Tolkien, J. R. R. The Lord of the Rings
And in an earlier published Carpenter #120: Letter from J.R.R. Tolkien to Allen & Unwin Ltd. • 16 March 1949 (#272) in response to Pauline Baynes being given the job of illustrating Farmer Giles he remarked that they were "more than illustrations, they are a collateral theme."
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