Halbarad wrote:

Mr. Underhill wrote:

If you read the description it does say “sealed” but doesn’t mention anywhere that it’s manufacturer sealed, which would be disingenuous. Seems to be describing what it is.

Yeah I read the description, but this to me is of little consolation when 1-He is not even attempting to clarify that it's not manufacturer sealed, and 2-the title and description state "AS NEW". The addition of this phrase conveys the same idea that it was sold "new" like this in the 70s, and therefore in my eyes is just as disingenuous. I also personally don't think this could be classified as new when closer inspection of the pictures shows some yellowing and potential effects of humidity. I would say it's closer to VG or VG+.

Mr. Underhill wrote:

I would also like to point out that Berelach is a valued member of the Tolkien community...

As true as this may be, I don't think this should ever buy anyone immunity to criticism. And I obviously have no way to know whether or not an eBay seller is part of this community, respected or not.

Mr. Underhill wrote:

...and I’m sure he’s not trying to pull one over on anyone.

I very much hope not. To be clear, I don't think he sealed it. But to me this seems like a simple attempt at making more money by taking advantage of people who are uninformed or new. I understand that it’s everyone's responsibility to do their homework before they make a purchase... but this is swimming in 'gray area'. It would be far more 'honest' to break the seal and remove the plastic when he seems to be aware that it wasn't sealed by the manufacturer, and most likely 99% of distributers or stores back in the late 70s weren't selling it this way either.

Berelach most likely acquired it as sealed. If I were a seller, I would remove the plastic assuming that someone before me sealed it with the intent to try and increase its value dishonestly. I would not want to risk my reputation with something this silly, though I suppose if Berelach sees this post it will be a good opportunity to clear up any misconceptions.

To be clear, I’m not defending his listing description or disputing your concerns about the item for sale as a whole. And I don’t think anyone here is or will get in the way of your freedom to, as you say, point out the “gray area” he’s in with the info provided. I’m sure he will chime in if he sees this.

My comments weren’t to offer Berelach “immunity” from criticism but simply to point out that he has a long and positive history of interactions on this site and elsewhere in the community. The opinions of him I listed are mine and mine alone. I can’t speak for anyone else.

I think this is a tricky one. I've had a bit of back and forth with Berelach about this one today (after I was asked for my opinion on the listing). I didn't love the listing (and I was open with Berelach about that). But he has updated the listing to make it clear that it may or may not have been original shrink-wrapped by the publisher and to correct the condition statement from "As New" (when it clearly has condition problems). I'm totally happy with the listing as it now presents -- that the book is VG and may or may not have been shrink-wrapped from the start.

I don't agree with Mr. Underhill the "As new" phrase conveys that the book was sold like this "as new". The condition statement on eBay should convey what condition the book is in today, otherwise it is completely meaningless).

My personal strong suspicion is that this was probably shrink-wrapped by a retailer. I've seen that happen a couple of times before in Australia. It is curious that Berelach came across another shrinkwrapped copy recently -- and it would be great to know how/why two have turned up recently and whether they had a common origin. I personally have never seen a shrink-wrapped A&U single-volume product, even back in the 80s when I bought them new, but that doesn't 100% mean it didn't ever happen.

Edit: I consider this a no-harm, no-foul situation, and I don't think there was an intention to mislead. But when someone is an acknowledged expert in the field we (the great unwashed) hold them to a higher standard because a potentially uninformed buyer looks to that expertise to fully inform them when making their purchase decision.

The late Stu wrote:

My personal strong suspicion is that this was probably shrink-wrapped by a retailer. I've seen that happen a couple of times before in Australia.

This was my thinking too. As for the “as new” wording, I’m coming from this mindset that if a retailer did this it would stand to reason it was soon after the book was manufactured…but I’ll concede that one, as I don’t have it in front of me.

Mr. Underhill wrote:

The late Stu wrote:

My personal strong suspicion is that this was probably shrink-wrapped by a retailer. I've seen that happen a couple of times before in Australia.

This was my thinking too. As for the “as new” wording, I’m coming from this mindset that if a retailer did this it would stand to reason it was soon after the book was manufactured…but I’ll concede that one, as I don’t have it in front of me.

Yeah, anybody's guess. There used to be a bookshop back in Perth (Australia) that sold new and used books, and they shrink-wrapped absolutely everything (which was a pain in the bum). That's the only place I have ever seen individually shrunk Unwin Hyman LotRs (and it was a pain as they all had red topstains and I couldn't check whether they were actually UH or GA&U books! I wasn't willing to buy them to find out!).