Hello!
Was the white version of this book (the photo version) available for sale outside of the exhibition?
If so, can anyone share the ISBN?
Thanks!
Was the white version of this book (the photo version) available for sale outside of the exhibition?
If so, can anyone share the ISBN?
Thanks!
The ISBN for the book is 9782717728170. I've never seen one for sale outside of the BnF shop either, but perhaps knowing that will help track down a second hand one for someone, someday.
19 March
(edited)
2025-3-19 4:15:33 PM UTC
Edited by Urulókë on 2025-3-19 8:13:58 PM UTC
2025-3-19 4:15:33 PM UTC
Hi everyone, I've been lurking this wonderful forum for years and I apologize for only now sign in to ask this tedious question.
I'm writing here because I see that it's not possible to answer on the dedicated page: https://www.tolkienguide.com/modules/w ... p?page=BnF+Exhibition+Map
Trying to understand what I have seen in my books or online and what not, I ask for confirmation on some doubts.
1) About Númenorean carpet [black and white], 1960 (Bodleian – MS. Tolkien Drawings 91, fol. 16) – p. 299 – [not reproduced]
Isn’t this it? https://tai.tolkienists.org/tai/73/
(Here a photo from The Silmarillion Calendar 1978 - https://tolkiencalendars.com/calPictures/1978/AU778.jpg )
2) About The King’s Letter, 3rd version, early 1950s (Marquette – MS. Tolkien MSS 4/2/25/1a) – p. 299 [Reproduced in Maker of Middle-earth p. 365, fig. 166] [Reproduced in The Art of The Lord of the Rings p. 235 fig. 188] [Reproduced in Sauron Defeated, p. 131]
and The King’s Letter, translation, early 1950s (Marquette – MS. Tolkien MSS 4/2/25/2a) – p. 299 – [not reproduced]
In The Art of the Manuscript they have the numbering inverted, right?
Pag.66 fig.33: The King’s Letter, third version, early 1950s - MS. Tolkien, Mss-4/2/25/2a
Pag 67 fig.34: The King’s Letter, third version transliteration - MS. Tolkien, Mss-4/2/25/1a
[Also, on the Anduin System they have the number 1a and 1b - https://anduin.marquette.edu/3/4/2/25/]
3) Are the items on pages 268-269 available in other books or sites?
Lord of the Rings queries and alterations [first page], Sept 1938 (Marquette Tolkien MSS 1/2/2/1a) – p. 268 fig. 188
Draft of chapter "Ancient History” from The Lord of the Rings, late 1938 (Marquette Tolkien MSS-1/2/5/2b) [first page] – p. 268 fig. 187
Lunar calendar in Middle-earth, 1944 (Marquette Tolkien MSS 4/2/29/18a) – p. 269 fig. 189
Distances in Middle-earth, 1944 (Marquette Tolkien MSS 4/2/19/2a) – p. 269 fig. 190
Thanks to anyone who wants to respond.
I'm writing here because I see that it's not possible to answer on the dedicated page: https://www.tolkienguide.com/modules/w ... p?page=BnF+Exhibition+Map
Trying to understand what I have seen in my books or online and what not, I ask for confirmation on some doubts.
1) About Númenorean carpet [black and white], 1960 (Bodleian – MS. Tolkien Drawings 91, fol. 16) – p. 299 – [not reproduced]
Isn’t this it? https://tai.tolkienists.org/tai/73/
(Here a photo from The Silmarillion Calendar 1978 - https://tolkiencalendars.com/calPictures/1978/AU778.jpg )
2) About The King’s Letter, 3rd version, early 1950s (Marquette – MS. Tolkien MSS 4/2/25/1a) – p. 299 [Reproduced in Maker of Middle-earth p. 365, fig. 166] [Reproduced in The Art of The Lord of the Rings p. 235 fig. 188] [Reproduced in Sauron Defeated, p. 131]
and The King’s Letter, translation, early 1950s (Marquette – MS. Tolkien MSS 4/2/25/2a) – p. 299 – [not reproduced]
In The Art of the Manuscript they have the numbering inverted, right?
Pag.66 fig.33: The King’s Letter, third version, early 1950s - MS. Tolkien, Mss-4/2/25/2a
Pag 67 fig.34: The King’s Letter, third version transliteration - MS. Tolkien, Mss-4/2/25/1a
[Also, on the Anduin System they have the number 1a and 1b - https://anduin.marquette.edu/3/4/2/25/]
3) Are the items on pages 268-269 available in other books or sites?
Lord of the Rings queries and alterations [first page], Sept 1938 (Marquette Tolkien MSS 1/2/2/1a) – p. 268 fig. 188
Draft of chapter "Ancient History” from The Lord of the Rings, late 1938 (Marquette Tolkien MSS-1/2/5/2b) [first page] – p. 268 fig. 187
Lunar calendar in Middle-earth, 1944 (Marquette Tolkien MSS 4/2/29/18a) – p. 269 fig. 189
Distances in Middle-earth, 1944 (Marquette Tolkien MSS 4/2/19/2a) – p. 269 fig. 190
Thanks to anyone who wants to respond.
Hi MirielMinato, and welcome! I'm glad you've de-lurked, and that you've gone through the BnF exhibition notes with such a detailed eye. Always a good thing!
I wrote that guide based on personal experience from a few days with the exhibition, with great help from Olwe and many others. Let me try and respond to each of your questions here:
There were two carpets on display, one of which was in colour and one in black and white (according to my notes!). The B&W one has not been reproduced, that I am aware of. It is possible my memory is mistaken and you are correct about the second carpet.
a) I believe, after checking the various books noted above, that The Art of the Manuscript is correct, and the BnF exibition book is incorrect. The letter is identified as "Mss-4/2/25/2a" in The Art of the Lord of the Rings as well as The Art of the Manuscript.
b) the 2a and 1a is correct for the two leaves (letter, and transcription). Anduin appears to be in error with the notation. 1a and 1b would imply that there is a single leaf, with text on both sides, but Anduin notes that the folder contains two leaves, and I have seen (at exhibition) that these two are separate pieces of paper and not two sides of a single piece.
I don't think so, but it is possible!
I wrote that guide based on personal experience from a few days with the exhibition, with great help from Olwe and many others. Let me try and respond to each of your questions here:
MirielMinato wrote:
1) About Númenorean carpet [black and white], 1960 (Bodleian – MS. Tolkien Drawings 91, fol. 16) – p. 299 – [not reproduced]
Isn’t this it? https://tai.tolkienists.org/tai/73/
(Here a photo from The Silmarillion Calendar 1978 - https://tolkiencalendars.com/calPictures/1978/AU778.jpg )
There were two carpets on display, one of which was in colour and one in black and white (according to my notes!). The B&W one has not been reproduced, that I am aware of. It is possible my memory is mistaken and you are correct about the second carpet.
MirielMinato wrote:
2) About The King’s Letter, 3rd version, early 1950s (Marquette – MS. Tolkien MSS 4/2/25/1a) – p. 299 [Reproduced in Maker of Middle-earth p. 365, fig. 166] [Reproduced in The Art of The Lord of the Rings p. 235 fig. 188] [Reproduced in Sauron Defeated, p. 131]
and The King’s Letter, translation, early 1950s (Marquette – MS. Tolkien MSS 4/2/25/2a) – p. 299 – [not reproduced]
In The Art of the Manuscript they have the numbering inverted, right?
Pag.66 fig.33: The King’s Letter, third version, early 1950s - MS. Tolkien, Mss-4/2/25/2a
Pag 67 fig.34: The King’s Letter, third version transliteration - MS. Tolkien, Mss-4/2/25/1a
[Also, on the Anduin System they have the number 1a and 1b - https://anduin.marquette.edu/3/4/2/25/]
a) I believe, after checking the various books noted above, that The Art of the Manuscript is correct, and the BnF exibition book is incorrect. The letter is identified as "Mss-4/2/25/2a" in The Art of the Lord of the Rings as well as The Art of the Manuscript.
b) the 2a and 1a is correct for the two leaves (letter, and transcription). Anduin appears to be in error with the notation. 1a and 1b would imply that there is a single leaf, with text on both sides, but Anduin notes that the folder contains two leaves, and I have seen (at exhibition) that these two are separate pieces of paper and not two sides of a single piece.
MirielMinato wrote:
3) Are the items on pages 268-269 available in other books or sites?
Lord of the Rings queries and alterations [first page], Sept 1938 (Marquette Tolkien MSS 1/2/2/1a) – p. 268 fig. 188
Draft of chapter "Ancient History” from The Lord of the Rings, late 1938 (Marquette Tolkien MSS-1/2/5/2b) [first page] – p. 268 fig. 187
Lunar calendar in Middle-earth, 1944 (Marquette Tolkien MSS 4/2/29/18a) – p. 269 fig. 189
Distances in Middle-earth, 1944 (Marquette Tolkien MSS 4/2/19/2a) – p. 269 fig. 190
I don't think so, but it is possible!
Thank you very much for your kind reply, Urulókë.
And thank you for your beautiful article about the exhibition, which allowed me to "live" it, at least in part.
I've been very interested in Tolkien's manuscripts lately: looking at them, is a funny way to read Christopher Tolkien's comments in HoME.
Perfect. I think so too. I asked to have confirmation and dispel the doubt that they were different items.
Thanks again and have a nice day.
And thank you for your beautiful article about the exhibition, which allowed me to "live" it, at least in part.
I've been very interested in Tolkien's manuscripts lately: looking at them, is a funny way to read Christopher Tolkien's comments in HoME.
Urulókë wrote:
b) the 2a and 1a is correct for the two leaves (letter, and transcription). Anduin appears to be in error with the notation. 1a and 1b would imply that there is a single leaf, with text on both sides, but Anduin notes that the folder contains two leaves, and I have seen (at exhibition) that these two are separate pieces of paper and not two sides of a single piece.
Perfect. I think so too. I asked to have confirmation and dispel the doubt that they were different items.
Thanks again and have a nice day.
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