Althoun wrote:

The latter is a pretty huge addition that takes one well beyond the rights territory of the LoTR Appendices. For one, it isn't even part of 'Middle-Earth'.

I see no way that this could be legally published by the marketing team without Amazon having the rights to at least parts of Unfinished Tales, given that this is the only place (in the Description of Númenor chapter) where this could plausibly be lifted from.

No disagreement here. Clearly Amazon has more than what the movie studios did, as far as materiel they can work with. Exactly what materiel they are allowed to work with is unknown (to me or anyone else outside of those dungeons Amazon has the poor script writers trapped in).

Likewise, Game of Thrones begins with the Stark family - with the bastard son Jon Snow, the doting mother who has, nonetheless, never forgiven her husband's infidelity, the charming relationships between brothers and sisters in a land broadly similar to Scotland or Northern England.

Her husband's implied infidelity (not her mistake, he lied). [Do I need to put spoilers for non-Tolkien works here?]

Like you, I'm excited by the possibilities and can't help but speculate

Her husband's implied infidelity (not her mistake, he lied). [Do I need to put spoilers for non-Tolkien works here?]

Yes, indeed. I was trying to be as 'unspoilery' as possible, just in the off (and admittedly small) chance that anyone did happen to read the thread who hadn't yet read the ASoIAF books or seen the TV series.

No disagreement here. Clearly Amazon has more than what the movie studios did, as far as materiel they can work with. Exactly what materiel they are allowed to work with is unknown (to me or anyone else outside of those dungeons Amazon has the poor script writers trapped in).

Yup, that's exactly where things sit at present!

That is certainly true when it comes to minor and largely circumstantial place-names or coast-lines but not for the actual design, shape and major geographical spots on Númenor.

I feel this is the case with Tol Morwen too which is only mentioned in The Silmarillion, The Shaping of Middle-earth, The War of the Jewels, and Fonstad's atlas. It is such a specific thing to place on the map that I can't see it being for no reason.

My personal opinion on Tol Morwen is that (a) they needed to fit Númenor on the map, (b) the map is rectangular, so therefore the northwest region will be visible on it, and (c) people would FREAK OUT if the island was left off the Amazon map, even though it likely has nothing to do with the Amazon storyline.

Just IMHO, of course. I think we (the fans) are putting way more thought into the maps than Amazon is, in certain regards.

With that in mind, here is a quote from Michael Benson, Amazon Studios' Head of Marketing from a BusinessInsider interview a few weeks ago:

I foresee "Lord of the Rings" as being probably one of the biggest investments we'll make in marketing. It is a lot of fun to market a show like that, but it's also really challenging because you could easily do something that might be a misstep. About four weeks ago, we opened up our social handles "@LOTRonPrime" and we began to reveal what we were doing for the series. And through a reveal of a series of maps, we told the audience and the fans that were going to be going into the second age. There's a lot more to come, but everything that we're doing to market "Lord of the Rings," we want to make sure that we maintain the authenticity that the fans expect.

With regards to Tol Morwen, I don't believe fans would have noticed it not being there, most anyway. After all, it is not on any official map produced by a Tolkien, is mentioned once in the main body of text in The Silmarillion and twice in The History of Middle-earth.

You clearly know more than you can say but I personally think its naming and inclusion on the map is significant.

I can happily say that I have no idea what they were thinking in regards to Tol Morwen.

It seems plain to me that whoever came up with the map and its "reveal" relied heavily on Fonstad's Atlas, not on the legendarium itself. I can only say again that I sure hope Fonstad's estate/family has been duly compensated.

I think (personal opinion only) that you are connecting dots that are pretty far apart. There are a lot of errors in Fonstad's Atlas that the Amazon cartographer did not propagate, and there are errors in the Amazon map that Fonstad gets correct.

Since Tol Morwen is the topic at hand, I took a look in Fonstad (2nd edition):

• p 38 - placement is ok (the structure of Beleriand is shown in shadow under the water, so you can see it essentially aligns with where the Stone of the Hapless was located)
  
• p 41 ok - pretty much reflects the same geography as p. 38
  
• p 52 - Tol Morwen is much too far south
  

I think everyone is working off the same base legendarium and thus there are obviously a lot of similarities, but I don't think there is firm connection (other than the erstwhile compass rose )

The researchers have either read UT, HoME, etc, or they haven't. I think it would be natural for them, if doing map reveals, to have Fonstad's book in hand though.

Aelfwine wrote:
It seems plain to me that whoever came up with the map and its "reveal" relied heavily on Fonstad's Atlas, not on the legendarium itself. I can only say again that I sure hope Fonstad's estate/family has been duly compensated.

I can't see Amazon blindly or even more generally copying elements from an atlas or book that is not directly linked to what they will be producing. They will have a specific set of hints/reveals to achieve, these maps have done that so far, whetting the appetite of many. Amazon are no fools, they know that to reveal these maps and then not deliver on them will piss off most fans. To tease the second age so bluntly and not expand on it would be a silly move. I believe the maps are specific to what we will see onscreen.

Urulókë wrote:
I think everyone is working off the same base legendarium and thus there are obviously a lot of similarities

Exactly, Fonstad's maps may well be a general guide but they are obviously so closely linked to the source matter that similarities are unavoidable.

Until proven otherwise, which I am sure I will be, I believe the series will focus at some point on the first age, possibly even The Children of Húrin, I think that could be the further series if all went well that was hinted at in the first press announcement.